Mal wrote:

RGS wrote:

Mal wrote:

Thought:

Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977… that has to mean that the Ben we first see in 2004 has never been shot by Sayid, correct? Therefore we cannot draw conclusions of the fountain based on Ben’s actions in 2004…

I first thought that WHH, that little Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977 and has always been shot by Sayid, but clearly actions in 1977 create another time line…

So that presumably means that 2004 Ben hasn’t taken his bath in the fountain, so that likely doesn’t affect his leadership status… it must be something else.

Not quite sure I’m following you. If WHH is consistently applied, then in Ben’s history, he was always shot by Sayid when we first meet him in Season 2’s(?) 2004, it’s just it hadn’t happened in Sayid’s “history” yet because he had not gone back to do it yet.

I think that the writers are trying to show the alternate time line that was created by Jack’s 1977 antics.

Regardless, the 2007 Ben had been shot by Sayid.

.

So I think “Sayid shooting young Ben” event is common to both timelines. (I’ll admit there’s lots of holes in that theory too, but I don’t yet understand the logistics of having more than one timeline)

Thanks, that makes (relative) sense… I guess the notion is that setting off the bomb was the variable… then I want to know what the future is of the 1977-without-the-explosion timeline is! If 1977 Jack, Kate et al didn’t set off the bomb… then they must have grown to be old 2004 islanders… and that would make a lot of sense as to why they are so important in the original timeline. But I suppose that’s up for speculation… though I’m sure many have already figured that part out.

I still say that there would/should be many alternate timelines after they travel to 1977 (or anywhere in the past, for the matter), though I’ll accept the variable-v-constant time continuum concept, and move on to another exciting episode tonight!! Can’t wait!

Duke wrote:

For those that think that Jacob had something to do with our all of our Losties being on Oceanic flight 815. Hurley was not on the Oceanic 815 flight because of Jacob, as far as we know. He did not encounter Jacob until leaving prison which lead him to book a seat on flight 316. I guess this debunks the notion that Jacob was the reason for the main characters to be on the original flight.

In this topsy turvy anything goes environment that the writers have created I think the key part of what you stated is “as far as we know.”

IF Jacob was causing these folks to get on 815, we don’t really know how he was doing it. I hope the story would not be that he was going around touching all of the key passengers, but if it were the case I would just bite down on my leather belt, and accept it.

I don’t think they’d make Jacob’s encounters with the Oceanic 6 at some point in their lives be the sole reason that they got on 815 (we see him touch Sayid post 815 too) it would be some kind of island thing…probably even unexplained at the rate they’re going.

Just my thought on it.

I understand what you are saying. Several people on this blog have posted about Jacob being th ereason that the Losties were in Australia and therfore on flight 815. I was just pointing out that this may not be the case.

Any thoughts on what Locke/smokey meant at the end when he came up to Richard and said it’s “good to see you out of those chains” just before he beat the crap out of him?

/////////////////////
I think richard was a slave on the black rock.

RGS wrote:

Mal wrote:

Thought:

Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977… that has to mean that the Ben we first see in 2004 has never been shot by Sayid, correct? Therefore we cannot draw conclusions of the fountain based on Ben’s actions in 2004…

I first thought that WHH, that little Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977 and has always been shot by Sayid, but clearly actions in 1977 create another time line…

So that presumably means that 2004 Ben hasn’t taken his bath in the fountain, so that likely doesn’t affect his leadership status… it must be something else.

Not quite sure I’m following you. If WHH is consistently applied, then in Ben’s history, he was always shot by Sayid when we first meet him in Season 2’s(?) 2004, it’s just it hadn’t happened in Sayid’s “history” yet because he had not gone back to do it yet.

I think that the writers are trying to show the alternate time line that was created by Jack’s 1977 antics.

Regardless, the 2007 Ben had been shot by Sayid.

But that doesn’t follow the logic that they are using for the alternate timeline… if the 1977 explosion caused an alternate 2004 timeline, then that means that everything they did in 1977 has nothing to do with the original 2004 timeline… therefore, the reality where Ben has been shot by Sayid would now be in the timeline we now see with the Losties landing in LA.

Child Ben shot by Sayid would not exist in the first timeline… that would have to mean that new 2004 Ben may not exist, he may have sunk with the island.

If you’re right that “Sayid shooting little Ben” occurs on only one timeline, how do you know which timeline it occurred on? It’s hard for me to wrap my mind around, but wouldn’t it be possible that that event could have occurred on the same timeline that has been the focus of the first 5 seasons, and the focus of the 2007 portion of S6? Because really, the events of S5 showed how the adult Sayid time-travelled from 2007 to 1977 and shot Ben. So if we’re on the other timeline (where flight 815 lands in LA), there’s no time-travelling, right? (at least, not that we’ve seen yet)

My take is that there was only one timeline prior to 1977, and then “the incident” caused that timeline to branch off into two different timelines, but each of those new segments of the timelines shares an identical history, pre-incident. So I think “Sayid shooting young Ben” event is common to both timelines. (I’ll admit there’s lots of holes in that theory too, but I don’t yet understand the logistics of having more than one timeline)

Mal wrote:

Thought:

Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977… that has to mean that the Ben we first see in 2004 has never been shot by Sayid, correct? Therefore we cannot draw conclusions of the fountain based on Ben’s actions in 2004…

I first thought that WHH, that little Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977 and has always been shot by Sayid, but clearly actions in 1977 create another time line…

So that presumably means that 2004 Ben hasn’t taken his bath in the fountain, so that likely doesn’t affect his leadership status… it must be something else.

Not quite sure I’m following you. If WHH is consistently applied, then in Ben’s history, he was always shot by Sayid when we first meet him in Season 2’s(?) 2004, it’s just it hadn’t happened in Sayid’s “history” yet because he had not gone back to do it yet.

I think that the writers are trying to show the alternate time line that was created by Jack’s 1977 antics.

Regardless, the 2007 Ben had been shot by Sayid.

But that doesn’t follow the logic that they are using for the alternate timeline… if the 1977 explosion caused an alternate 2004 timeline, then that means that everything they did in 1977 has nothing to do with the original 2004 timeline… therefore, the reality where Ben has been shot by Sayid would now be in the timeline we now see with the Losties landing in LA.

Child Ben shot by Sayid would not exist in the first timeline… that would have to mean that new 2004 Ben may not exist, he may have sunk with the island.

For those that think that Jacob had something to do with our all of our Losties being on Oceanic flight 815. Hurley was not on the Oceanic 815 flight because of Jacob, as far as we know. He did not encounter Jacob until leaving prison which lead him to book a seat on flight 316. I guess this debunks the notion that Jacob was the reason for the main characters to be on the original flight.

In this topsy turvy anything goes environment that the writers have created I think the key part of what you stated is “as far as we know.”

IF Jacob was causing these folks to get on 815, we don’t really know how he was doing it. I hope the story would not be that he was going around touching all of the key passengers, but if it were the case I would just bite down on my leather belt, and accept it.

I don’t think they’d make Jacob’s encounters with the Oceanic 6 at some point in their lives be the sole reason that they got on 815 (we see him touch Sayid post 815 too) it would be some kind of island thing…probably even unexplained at the rate they’re going.

Just my thought on it.

Thought:

Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977… that has to mean that the Ben we first see in 2004 has never been shot by Sayid, correct? Therefore we cannot draw conclusions of the fountain based on Ben’s actions in 2004…

I first thought that WHH, that little Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977 and has always been shot by Sayid, but clearly actions in 1977 create another time line…

So that presumably means that 2004 Ben hasn’t taken his bath in the fountain, so that likely doesn’t affect his leadership status… it must be something else.

Not quite sure I’m following you. If WHH is consistently applied, then in Ben’s history, he was always shot by Sayid when we first meet him in Season 2’s(?) 2004, it’s just it hadn’t happened in Sayid’s “history” yet because he had not gone back to do it yet.

I think that the writers are trying to show the alternate time line that was created by Jack’s 1977 antics.

Regardless, the 2007 Ben had been shot by Sayid.

Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977… that has to mean that the Ben we first see in 2004 has never been shot by Sayid, correct? Therefore we cannot draw conclusions of the fountain based on Ben’s actions in 2004…

I first thought that WHH, that little Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977 and has always been shot by Sayid, but clearly actions in 1977 create another time line…

So that presumably means that 2004 Ben hasn’t taken his bath in the fountain, so that likely doesn’t affect his leadership status… it must be something else.