The Shape of Things to Come
1 year, 10 months ago by WillRead more: Ben, Lost Episodes, season 4
Lost is back in a major way tonight – death, destruction and mayhem have all been rumored and predicted. The title itself gives reference to a book by H.G. Wells that speculates on future events and the nature of war.
Spoiler Warning
ABC’s Official Show Description
“Locke’s camp comes under attack, and Jack tries to discover the identity of a body that has washed ashore.”
The episode will be Ben-centric, including what is supposed to be an awesome flash forward. I am interested to see if we find out what happened to Rousseau and obviously, who washes ashore. There are a ton of other questions to be answered since the last EP (like always), so hopefully these last 6 weeks will deliver!
Episode Preview
Some sneak peeks: Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2 | Sneak Peek 3 | Sneak Peek 4
Comment 1, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Wow i’m the first yeah.
Can’t wait till tonight
Comment 2, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Woo-who! I have my sushi and mango mai tais ready to go!
Comment 3, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I know one thing, if Sawyer yells at you to “get back inside”…it’s bad luck (3 for 3). :)
Comment 4, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I cant wait for tonight! I hope Claire doesnt die tonight…and I wonder who exactly is going to do the attacking???
Comment 5, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Get back inside!!
Just testing.
Comment 6, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hello everyone… Just wanted to say that I won’t be blogging/chatting with you until the end of the season. I’ve waited this long for Lost to come back, so I’m gonna try to see if I can hold out until 5/29 to watch all of the final 5 hours, oops, 6 hours of programming. If you see me back here before then, then you know I would have failed and will readily sign up for the next LAA meeting……….
Comment 7, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
“Jack trying to I.D. a body that washed ashore”…
One thing has bugged me since Season One. In S1E5 White Rabbit – A passenger drowns – “Joanna Miller”. Charlie can’t help her. Boone fails. Jack swims to help her and saves Boone instead, having to let Joanna drown.
We never heard anything after that about Joanna, except when they creamated her photo in the bonfire (I think). I wonder if its’ her that finally washes ashore tonight. She’d have been in the water about three months by now, but she was blonde and pretty (like Jack likes) when she went in.
Otherwise, we have Greta and Bonnie from the Looking Glass, and Regina from the freighter, still to be accounted for after their adventures in Davy Jones’ locker. (aarrggh).
All speculation on my part – as I remain Spoiler Free and a Preview Virgin. The Joanna drowning just happens to be way up on my LOST list of per peeves.
Comment 8, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
All speculation on my part – as I remain Spoiler Free and a Preview Virgin. The Joanna drowning just happens to be way up on my LOST list of per peeves.
_____________________________________________
Those are a few people that I was thinking it could be also Doc. Can’t wait for tonight. One question: Is a ‘per peeve’ a feline relative of a ‘pet peeve’? Sorry, couldn’t help myself. ; )
Comment 9, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
The Shape of Things to Come just makes me think of Refused’s excellent album The Shape of Punk to Come.
Comment 10, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
___
Maybe it’s Charlie, or Patchy, or maybe Jack is pulling himself out of the water! Wouldn’t that be wild?!? I’m just kidding. I’m so slap happy over three hours of fresh TV. I don’t even know what I’m saying.
PS – Think they tell us who’s in the coffin? HAHA – totally kidding!
Comment 11, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sawyer’s Evil Twin wrote:
No… that’s a typo. I have a big fat band-aid on the end of my left middle finger where they stitched the tip back on a few weeks ago.
(I like the the Purr Peeve idea – my dog, Vincent, decidely does not.)
Comment 12, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
The title is very intriguing. Not only is it a song by the greatest song writer ever, IMO, Chris Cornell; more importantly, it was a book written by HG wells back in the 30’s.
In this book he foreshadowed what was gonna happen in WWII. Cities being detroyed from airstrikes. He beleived that the war would last into the 1960’s, being ended by a plague that almost destorys civilization. He also beleived that the solution to mankinds problems was a “world state”, being run by a dictatorship. This dictatorship promotes science, enforces basic English as a global language, and gets rid of religion. When this dictatorship needs to get rid of political opponents, it gives them a chance to take a poison tablet in the envronment of their choice.
Comment 13, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Something bad is gonna happen for everyone and its gonna be claires fault. If you believe the one black aone white eye Locke!
Has Jack ever seen Patchy, right?
Comment 14, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I like the Joanna theory, but after 3 months in the water she would have to be pretty raw by now and almost unrecognizable (DHARMA shark food). I also like maybe Charlie. I think Regina sunk like a stone with all the chains she had on.
But what about Christian? His body was not in the coffin.
Comment 15, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Intuitively I think that they have never met, but, great point about Jack NEVER seeing Mikhail. I can’t think when, if ever, they have crossed paths, but, I will research that. I think I excluded Mikhail because someone still in Camp Jack has seen Mikhail before (Jin?), and would be able to tell us if the washed-up carcass was the Mad Russian. Missing one hand, may = Mikhail.
The island seems to always return what doesn’t make it out on the correct “heading”. Maybe the washed ashore body never caught the correct current. Maybe Dharma Sharks are kosher, or corn-fed. If it doesn’t have a Dharma label (or blessed by Jacob), they avoid consuming it. [;^)
[sorry if I offended, that last joke may have been out-of-line.]
Des has seen Greta & Bonnie before, but is on the freighter now. The girls were still inside the Looking Glass when Des escaped, so they are likely still there. Regina jumped ship outside of the island ‘bubble’ not too long ago (40 miles away) and probably could not drift to the island so quickly, even if she rotted away from her chains, and made it through the bubble.
That’s why I went for my “pet peeve” Joanna Miller. Her whole sequence seemed disjointed. I have always hoped that we’d get an endstory/backstory on her. It seemed out of place, but I just discounted it over the years as a “Charlie doesn’t swim well – Boone is ineffective – Jack can’t save everybody” lesson learned.
Comment 16, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
What about Inman? Whatever happened to him? Is he still baking om the island rock where Des hit him on the day of the crash?
Comment 17, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Are ya ready kids? Aye Aye Captain! I can’t hear yoooouuuu. Aye Aye Captain!!!
Wouldn’t Regina’s chains be drawn to the magnetic island?
Comment 18, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I checked. I can not find any transcript where Jack and Mikhail are in visual/verbal range of one another, and we all know how NO ONE tells anyone else what is going on, on the island.
Juliet, along w/ Jin, could ID Mikhail, at Camp Jack. Hurley, Des, John, Kate, Ben are at the Barracks, and not with Jack. Bea, Tom, Bonnie, Greta, Naomi and Charlie are dead and can’t ID Mikhail. Des and Sayid are off-island, Karl & Danielle are indisposed, Alex is ‘busy’ and Alpert is heading for the Temple – so they can’t ID Mikhail.
I’m sticking w/ Joanna Miller (for now).
Comment 19, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
It could be someone from the freighter, Brandon or Minkowski. What did they do on the freighter with their bodies? Maybe Regina, Sector 7, the island drawing the chains toward it. Or what if someone else on the freighter is discovered to be working for Ben and they throw him overboard.
Comment 20, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Normally, chains like we saw on Regina are not magnetic. If they are they are not very magnetic at all… AND… not all magnetics attract – half the time they repel. She could be pushed away too. Personally, I think this (dead body) will be the least discussed topic 24 hours from now here at LostBlog. That’s why I brought it up so early.
Comment 21, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
So the body…..I don’t think its Charlie or Patchy because I don’t think their bodies are still…..out there because of the explosion. I don’t think its Regina because I think her body is in the bottom of the ocean. I think it has to be someone who died recently…maybe out at sea??? I think its gonna be someone from the freighter but not Des and obviously not Sayid
Comment 22, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
what if it’s collen (is that right?). she’s the one who they put out to sea and all the others were wearing white bcuz jack couldn’t save her. i’ve had this wierd feeling tho it’s gonna be sarah (jack’s ex wife).
Comment 23, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
hey what up losties, im back after many weeks… Lost is Back Tonight and im ready, got all the guns loaded, and the doors barricated… GET BACK INSIDE….
Comment 24, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
man if claire dies tonight, ill give her a job in a heartbeat…she so sweet n sexy…
Comment 25, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sawyer’s Evil Twin wrote:
Are you okay? LOL
Comment 26, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
++++++++++
Gotta ask. Knife wound or attack?
Comment 27, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
It’s not Regina IMO(in the preview, the dead person is wearing white, Regina was in a dark clothes when she jumped), but THIS magnet does attract per the key around Jack’s neck and all the crap that flew at the wall when the hatch blew.
Comment 28, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
omar wrote:
Welcom back…if you haven’t been shot. :)
Comment 29, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
What ever happened to Locke’s dad’s body? I remember him carrying it to him to Ben’s traveling camp, but not sure what happened after it. Could his body be the one washed ashore? Hope Nikki & Paulo’s remains stayed buried and don’t return….
Comment 30, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
Oohhhh who lives in a pineapple under the sea?
DHARMA shark square pants.
We haven’t seen him in a while.
Comment 31, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
i’dgetloswithsawyer wrote:
He was wrapped in a dark cloth. Washed up body wearing white.
Comment 32, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I just watched all 4 of the “Sneak Peeks” and I can’t wait to watch the show in a half hour to tie it all together! My guess for the body that washes ashore is Charlie. Wouldn’t that be ultra dramatic???
As Hurley would say, “Wo Dude!”
Comment 33, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Phew, only 32 posts so far. I was figuring I’d login and see 300 posts and only have 1/2 hr to catch up. Looking fwd to tonight!
Comment 34, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
skweez wrote:
Meetings are one hour before air time (eastern)…see you there. :)
Comment 35, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
i can not wait until 15 minutes from now. i just want to jump out of my skin. lost always makes me happy until the last half hour before it comes on and then i start to go crazy.
Comment 36, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
The body was wearing white…the only thing I could think of is the doctor on the freighter. Everytime I saw him, he was wearing a white coat
Comment 37, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Angel wrote:
That my guess…wink, wink.
Comment 38, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Again – preview virgin here – never saw the wearing white thing…
game time in three minutes!
Comment 39, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
That’s cool, but you are chatting on the preview thread. :)
Finger a doctor injury or Purple Heart getter?
Comment 40, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Siberia…nice touch. Australia is the KEY TO THE GAME?
Comment 41, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Why is Ben wearing Halowax’s jacket?
Comment 42, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Too many FREEKIN commercials!!!!
Comment 43, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
+_+_+_+_+_
OMG to many already!
Comment 44, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
HO-LY…Sh&%!!!!
Manipulator met his match.
Comment 45, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
OMG! Im in utter shock Im actually shaking
Comment 46, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
So Ben controls Smokey!!!
Comment 47, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
too much coming in too fast. It will take days to analyse the consequence of what we are seeing
Comment 48, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lol was anyone else cheering on smokey?!?!?!?!
Comment 49, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
too
much
information
information
overload
brain
frying
ACK!
Comment 50, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Ben went into the tunnel.
Comment 51, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Bruno wrote:
I know, this so great. Ben gets humanized, do we dare believe he is on the good side now?
Did Ben go get Smokey/Whisperers to protect the island?
Comment 52, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Ben going after Penny. Desmond wont like that.
Comment 53, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Stupid episode
Comment 54, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
There were WAY too many commercials, but on a positive note, NONE of them were for Eli Stone!
: ) P
Comment 55, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
It still looks like Ben is on the bad guys side to me. Yes this stuff will take days to go over. I will return later.
Comment 56, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Okay, brainstorming session in order:
Why can’t Charles be killed? Native of the island? Is he 4 toed and somehow got off the island but can’t find his way back?
Comment 57, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
There was a depression in the ground where Ben was laying in the desert like he was dropped.
Comment 58, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
It appears that the title LOST has been redefined. No longer does it mean the LOST castaways, or the LOST way, but now its what has been LOST and the struggle to get it back.
Comment 59, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
_+_+_+_+_+_+
Ben can not kill Widmore. Because the island wont let him or because you can change the past/present/future.
Comment 60, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
jorge wrote:
Don’t even start. :(
Comment 61, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
He seems to have teleported there.
Comment 62, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Oh, and “the island” is the key to the game.
Comment 63, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Rita wrote:
_+_+_+_+_+
Yeah,But when? WHen he went into the tunnel?
Comment 64, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
LOL
Comment 65, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
very twisted. i lost it when smokey came and saved the day. that was tooooo much. not real.stupid, really
Comment 66, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
matt wrote:
deep…
Comment 67, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Smokey really is a security system
Comment 68, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Obvious teleportation. He was cold and wearing a jacket. Wasn’t that ice on his sleeve?
Will Ben send Sayid to kill Penny?
Comment 69, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
a security system that you can see through yet strong enough to pick up a gunman and wisk him …. where? remember mr. eko
Comment 70, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Last time I checked it was the show thread (not preview thread) meaning “No spoilers or discussion of episode previews.”
jorge wrote:
Shock and Awe – Like Ben said.
Translation for small minds… BEST LOST Episode ever.
Comment 71, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
when smokey “saved the day” i just started laughing. there’s nothing better then watching a cloud of smoke drag people across the ground and beat them to death. suffocating them to death wouldn’t be as funny, but really who comes up with that kind of an idea??
So sayid gets off the island, gets nadia (aww, love), she dies supposedly by the dude, ben gets sayid to kill him and cons him to working for him. And now ben’s going after penny & taking des’s love away! Not fair!!!!
ok episode…
Comment 72, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
+_+_+_+_+_+
WHere would he be teleporting from that would be cold. He looked like he got shot. and he was in one of those jackets.
& yes he will be sending sayid
Comment 73, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
My money is the FF at the animal hospital, when Ben says he has another name for Sayid…Penny.
Comment 74, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
guess it’s pretty obvious now that Ben can move through time and space. I got the impression that Ben travelled to Tunisia, Iraq and London when he went into the cave, but he didn’t have any bruises etc. Any suggestions?
Comment 75, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
pjsander i liked eli stone…OK WTF IS GOING ON…. so ben is a internatinal spy and this show proves it, i told yall long time ago he knows EXACTLY what he is doing…his daughter dies, so ben is gonna kill widmores daughter penny.. So is widmore and ben both buisness partners and some deal (the island) went bad and they wanna buy each other out, or maybe ben was like ENOUGH, get these flight 815 survivors off my island, and widmore was the only one with cash and resources to do it??…
WHAT THE HELL IS THAT BLACK SMOKE, and claire lives for now, but we know she gonna die or kate just adds kidnapping to her criminal history….and my dog keeps looking at me, i think he lost, or maybe he wanna be famous like vincent..
Comment 76, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
OK, the long wait is over and new food for thought.
So Ben is in Iraq in OCT 2005 and goes to London (either before or after that) to visit Charles Widmore to tell him he is going to kill Penelope (which we’ll assume he can accomplish at some point).
It seemed like Widmore had control of the Island way back in the Dharma era (or before?), when he told Ben it had always been “his Island”. If so, how did he lose the location of it? Could the Island have been teleported to another location off of Widmore’s “radar” ?
I knew Daniel was lying about the morse code and glad Bernard “busted” him. What’s his agenda, (or more likely) what is he going along with in deceiving Jack’s group ?
And to close for now while I lay awake thinking, Sad to see Alex meet her demise. I didn’t think they would do that and I’m sure many of us will miss her.
Comment 77, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
yeah, what did widimore mean when he said “it’s ALWAYS been MY island?”????? is he dharma or something???? i don’t think dharma considered the island to be the “hostile’s.”
Comment 78, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Shooter wrote:
My take is that he was summoning Smokey. The traveling will happen after meeting with Jacob.
Comment 79, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Shooter wrote:
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+
The bruises were the first thing i was looking for. Thats the only thing that makes me think he didn’t travell through the tunnel at that time.
Sayids reactions when he first see him was that Ben should still be on the Isalnd.
Comment 80, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
i think you’re right that he was summoning smokey
Comment 81, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
widmore probably funded the dharma inituative back in the day, cause he is a billionaire, and it was a research facilty, and he got the money to do it, so in words it might have been his island…..That was bens flash foward… lost chicka u a sucka for any1 falling in love.})
Comment 82, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
true forgot about that.
Has anyone tried to put together a timeline of all the flashforwards, especially now that we know they aren’t being shown in order?
Comment 83, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Great episode
how did Keamy survive Smokey?
and i wonder where penny is that would make her hard to find
Comment 84, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Shooter wrote:
+_+_+_+_+
I would say they showed it in order just by his appearance and how it change. it became more groomed over time.
Comment 85, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
yeah ben says widimore will never find the island (so what happened to his people that found the island?). and widimore says ben will never find penny – so where’s she at??? w/ jacob? :P
Comment 86, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
And what’s Jack coming down with ?
We know it can’t be too serious ‘cuz he ends up back home, but it looks like his little illness might be important.
Comment 87, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
The FFs in an episode are always in order per character. I think he was asking about ALL the FFs, not just tonight’s.
Comment 88, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
My favorite part of tonight’s episode was how Sawyer was so protective of Hurley, Claire and the baby. I’ve been re-watching the show from season 1 and he has really come a long way.
And I loved watching Hurley hold that baby while he played RISK.
It’s hard to believe that Ben left his daughter out to dry like that. I mean, what kind of guy does that? He is not a good guy.
The show has evolved so much from the beginning.
Looks like Farraday is a big fat liar. So, is the doctor on the boat not dead yet on the boat but because of the “time delay/warp thing-y” he will be dead soon so that is why he is dead on the island? Hmmm…ouch my brain hurts.
Comment 89, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
i agree that this episodes were in order, I was wondering if anyone has tried to sort out all the ff from the beginning of the season. After rewatching a few eps i think i’ve got it down but would like to see a “time map” to compare.
Comment 90, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I’m bettin’ Ben WILL find Penny and HE wants to do “the honors” himself!
Comment 91, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I would agree that Widmore has lots of money invested into the island therefore its his. He most likely was taken there ( if he has ever been there) and doesn’t know how to get there. That’s why he buys the book from the auction. Ben probably had everyone who knew how to get there killed.
Comment 92, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost chicka wrote:
My guess is that he who controls the island controls when/where it is. So until Charles gets control of the island he can’t control when/where it is.
Comment 93, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Locke said to Ben tonight, about Smokie, you said you didn’t know what Smokie is… Ben reaffirmed what he said before, that basically – yeah – don’t know what Smokie is – he NEVER said he did not know how to use OR summon Smokie… he has simply said (twice) he doesn’t know what Smokie is (think Quigley Down Under final scenes).
Ben found his extra double super secret closet and it had markings/hieroglyphs like the pillar that Sawyer & Lockes dad was tied to, when Ben told John to kill the conman. Ben was all neat and clean going in to the closet, after playing the piano, but when he came out, he looked like he had just changed an engine or transmission. I don’t think he bolted for Tunisia, or anywhere else at that point.
As for plopping in the middle of Tunisia, he was like everyone else that jolts awake suddenly on the show, asleep – then eyes wide open. That has to be travel through the ‘portal’. He even got a little vomit-ty right afterward – a symptom described to Juliet before her voyage to the island.
Comment 94, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sayeed is a straight gangsta, raw underworld killer….he a beast son… but anyways the houston rockets gonna win tonight, McGrady fo three….oh, has any1 played this lost video game on the ps3??
Comment 95, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
It’s hard to believe that Ben left his daughter out to dry like that. I mean, what kind of guy does that? He is not a good
_+_+_+_+_+
I think Ben thought she honestly would not die. He seemed to be in utter shock.
Comment 96, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
+_+_+__+_+_+_
Think the tunnel he climbed into was just that dirty.
Comment 97, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
=====
I see what you mean, but to even say “she’s a pawn, she means nothing to me.” How can he actually say those things? Like, really. What father does that? Ever. Even in an emergency situation. That’s awful. I think he thought he could manipulate and get his way per usual and was in shock when things didn’t go the way he planned. Because you know, he “always has a plan.”
Comment 98, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
++++
For sure…Ben was playing a mind game on man he researched…but this time he was wrong. It’s just the latest “game changer” that Lost is infamous for…
Comment 99, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
I think you’re right on.
Also, the comment Ben made to Locke that he needed him to survive…he must know that he needs Locke to “man” the island while he evacuates.
Comment 100, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RAY wrote:
+_+_+__+_+_+_+_
He was totally using reverse psychology on kimmy. just didn’t work. He was trying to save her life with out giving up his own. Because he knew they would kill her any way
Comment 101, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
As for Widmore vs. Linus. They came off as a couple of old world gansters/mafioso. Ben is the new punk that wants to toss the old boss. Widmore mentioned that everything Ben had was stolen, from him. We heard “changed the rules” a few times tonight. Code of honor is important, even in mobs, “honor among thieves” if you will. One old world “rule” – “you never go after a rivals’ family”… business is business – you do battle there, and family is sacred… off-limits. When Widmore (if Ben is right) whacked Alex, then he changed the rules and Penny became fair game. LChicka said that Des might not like that Penny is now a target. We saw Ben in Tunisia almost a year after the island, who is to say that Desmond is still alive, or off-island at that point?
Comment 102, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Observation: tonight, the ISLAND scenes were the flashbacks! Did anyone else notice that when we “returned” to see what was going on in New Otherton and on the beach, we heard that familiar SWOOSH that usually takes us to a character’s flashBACK.
hmmmm
: ) P
Comment 103, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
I thought maybe that Ben and Charles had some sort of “gentlemen’s agreement”. They’re fighting a war over this island and anyone is expendable, except they “agreed” not to make personal attacks on each other’s loved ones. That’s why Ben thought that Alex would be safe. When Keamy killed her, Ben realized that Charles had “changed the rules”.
Comment 104, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
well ben said he couldnt believe that he changed the rules after his daughter dies, then told widmore that in his penthouse that he changed the rules….so that concludes that ben and widmore have been fighting over the island for years beacuse widmore funded the island for research and wants its miracles for profit, and ben just took over the island in a coup…. so they probably had some arangement that they would not kill each others family members in fight for this elusive and magnificent island….but Widmore changed the rules… so, my lost friends, thats why ben told that guy to kill alex, he didnt think it would really happen.
Comment 105, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
+_+_+_+_+_+_
Because its Des and he’s awesome. But they did come of very old world. Even the car Ben pulls up in.
Comment 106, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
Spot on. The battle was being played with classic rules. Spies, plants, etc. What strikes me STILL is the “my daughter” intesity of Ben. I really think he is her real father.
Comment 107, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Andrew wrote:
Where did we see that Keamy survived the attack by the smoke monster?
Comment 108, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
The comment about sleeping with a bottle of whisky like they have known each other for a while. and widomer having nightmares
Comment 109, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
“so, my lost friends, thats why ben told that guy to kill alex, he didnt think it would really happen.
“
====
Good point. My point however is Ben is a sucky dad for saying those things in front of Alex.
Comment 110, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
As for the order of all FFs this season, I believe D&C said that they are going in order from furthermost to latest. So Jacks FF happens furthermost in the future, then Kate’s happens before that, then Sayid’s in The Economist, etc.
Comment 111, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
My only criticism is that Sayid took Ben at his word that the bald dude killed Nadia, with the only evidence being a photo that could easily have been doctored. I would have imagined Sayid still had trust issues with Ben – unless there is something IMPORTANT, and as yet unseen, that happened between tonight’s island time and the October 2005 desert funeral procession.
Definitely an episode full of surprises, revelations, easter eggs and of course, even more questions.
“Australia’s the key to the game.”
: ) P
Comment 112, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
>> i think he didn’t think she would die. he really didn’t think she’d die if he said she meant nothing to him. i think he really did do that cuz he thought he could save her, not bcuz he’s a bad guy (tho he is without a doubt). i don’t know who was worse tho trying to save their kid ben or michael…
Comment 113, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
Thanks, that puts it better perspective.
Comment 114, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RAY wrote:
Comment 115, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
Don’t watch the commercials!
Comment 116, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RAY wrote:
“
====
Good point. My point however is Ben is a sucky dad for saying those things in front of Alex.
I think Ben said that to make Keamy leave Alex alone. Keamy threatened to kill Alex because he knew Ben loved her. If Ben could convince Keamy otherwise, he might leave her alive. So I don’t buy Ben was being a terrible father in this case.
Comment 117, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
Yep, sure seems new. Goes along with D&C saying that the lines will get blurred (paraphrasing).
Comment 118, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Whitmore is the head of the Hanso Society or he’s actually Magnus Hanso.
Comment 119, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
The preview that im apperantly not suposed to talk about…my bad
Comment 120, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
I beg to differ. In fact, as I remember it, they denied this is the case. As I recall, D&C said that within each episode the flashforwards happen in chronological order, but that over the arc of the series, there is not an order.
: ) P
Comment 121, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
does anyone know what song Ben was playing on the piano when Locke, Hurley, Sawyer, and Aaron entered?
Comment 122, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
shells wrote:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
No. But good question. How can we find out?
Comment 123, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
If Widmore is the guy who funded the whole DHARMA initiative like some of you are speculating, then why are the DHARMA food and supply drops still happening? Wouldn’t Widmore have stopped those? Seems to be a hole in there somewhere.
Comment 124, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
Slightly disagree. I didn’t see it as reaffirming, his response was a defiant “You can ask Jacob all about it when we go to the cabin.” I took it as he affirmed he lied.
Comment 125, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
the most pressing question for me tonight is what is ben? we have heard repeatedly that miles knew what he was. widmore knows what he is? what the ?#%* is he?!?! charles widmore is an anagram of chimeras weldor. can ben see thru him and vice versa? are the otherworldly disguised as human? makes me think of old legends about the faerie kingdom we see come up in some comic books.
Comment 126, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Writer wrote:
DHARMA was funded by the Hanso Foundation. Widmore Industries is tied to Hanso Foundation in a partnership and Hanso has offices in the Widmore building in New York (we learned from The Bad Twin book).
Comment 127, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
avalanche wrote:
Well we saw his birth, from humans off the island and only ended up on the island per chance. So I think they mean something metaphoric.
Comment 128, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Awesome. Just awesome.
Comment 129, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Okay, bed time for Bonzo.
See you in a couple of hundred posts (after the West coasters get a load of this!)
I have to ponder why Charles can’t be killed. Because Jacob said so? What’s going on?
Comment 130, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
+_+_+__+_+_+_+
Jacob and Widmore.
Jacob, Widmore.
Jacob Widmore.
Comment 131, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
The answer?
Can’t be killed because he is too important to the story and unfolding events.
OR,
Can’t be killed (physically) because he is immortal(ish) like Mikhail, Alpert, Naomi, et al.
No clue here.
Comment 132, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Yes! I knew Ben could time travel. : )
Where’s Abaddon?
Where’s Frank?
Faraday’s got to spill it! What else does he know?
Go Claire! Survive that explosion, girl! She even kept her shoes on! I love it!
What are “the rules?”
Night, night.
Comment 133, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
False logic you. I have two high power magnets. I line them up head-to-tail, and they cling so hard, it takes 5 minutes to wrestle them apart.
SAME two magnets head-to-head, and one gets thrown half way across the room.
Comment 134, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
————–
we really don’t know that his mother (or laslo :) )was human and i dare say nothing happens surrounding ben by coincidence
Comment 135, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
intolost wrote:
+_+_+_+_+__+
Yeah. I liked how he asked for the date. The girl behind the counter had a weird expression. .
Comment 136, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
****************************************************
The first thing that popped into my mind when Ben said that, was that Locke was like Charlie in Willy Wonka’s Chocolate Factory. He had to pass all of the tests to see if he was the one destined top take over the Factory after Willy left. Guess we know now that Locke is the “One” that They were waiting for after all…
Now, were is that lifetime supply of “Apollo” Chocolate Bars that he was promised?…
Comment 137, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Also, I don’t think that Ben not being able to kill Widmore has anything to do with an agreement, or some kind of “Pirate” code… (More about Pirates later…) But it has to be related to a time space continuum, or Jacob, or both. Also “Alway his Island” may have something to do with the old faithfull Finders Keepers law. Since he feels the “Black Rock” Pirates have claim to the Island since they “Found” it first…
Comment 138, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Wow, I’m gonna need to watch that again! Just wow…actually I’m so wired now that I might just stay up and watch it now…it’s only got to be like what, 20 minutes without the commercials? :)
Comment 139, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Am I the only West coaster on here? I hate being the last one “in the know”!
Comment 140, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Now we know how polar bears end up in the desert wearing DHARMA jewelry…although I found it funny that Ben wore a down jacket for his magic carpet ride to the Sahara. I think it is interesting that they used such a large animal to test out their teleporting device…most capable scientists prefer using smaller model organisms for dry runs.
Comment 141, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I don’t think Ben would send Sayid to kill Penny because that would ruin the manipulation he has over Sayid. Sayid knows who Penny is in relation to Desmond. I don’t even think it’s a far leap to think that Desmond talked to Sayid about that on the freightor (off camera of course, because that would be a minor turn of events, that got compressed).
Ben’s visit to Widmore very likely ocurred after he recruited Sayid, otherwise dude Ben was following, would have known who Ben was, as he would have probably had orders to kill him.
I am not so sure we know that Ben travels through time. Perhaps the time of the bubble surrounding the island. The point that weakens that position is because he seemed confused as to the year. If he is able to travel through time, seems like he wouldn’t have been in shock when his daughter died. There’s just a lot of stuff that would not surprise him.
So not understanding how Miles could be alive at this point, it’s like they’ve befriended him, and he keeps talkin’ ish about them getting killed. D&C needs to clean that up.
I think the reason that Ben can’t kill Widmore hasn’t even been close to being revealed.
Though I am unsure of how the Widmore/Hanso connection fits together because there is something not quite right about the supply drops continuing. Although a reason that the drops would continue is because Widmore needs Ben to stay alive in order to find the island.
By the same token he has a general idea of where it is to make drops but can’t find the exact location? Part of the reason he can’t find the island though, is because Ben was jamming signals, etc. after the purge.
It was a cool little episode though, more mysteries unearthed of course.
Comment 142, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
UpInSmoke wrote:
The polar bear might not have been the dry run. They may have started doing that to further their experiments of animals living in different climates.
Comment 143, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
first timer………
did anyone else think it was strange that Miles acted like he didn’t know who the attackers were when he rang the doorbell and gave Ben the walkie-talkie? He was on the same boat as them!
Comment 144, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
So Claire is okay for now but they still make us see her as frail, don’t think she has much longer left on the show…
I just keep thinking about Hurley’s flash forward when he tells Jack he’s sorry he didn’t go to the beach with him… thought I pretty well understood that comment but now that he takes off with Locke and Ben I’m really wondering about the weight of that statement.
Comment 145, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hi Lins. I’m a west coaster too. Just finished watching and catching up on the blog entries. What an exciting episode. Seems like an entirely different show now–like Ben and Charles are playing a game with everyone else being the pawns. I thought it was interesting when Ben was in the penthouse with Widmore and at certain points in the scene you could only see half of each of their faces. Could they be brothers…..the same person? Creepy.
Comment 146, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
jorge wrote:
JTS
Comment 147, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
INDIANA Ben
Comment 148, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
so: this flash forward had nothing to do with what was happening while smokie was cleaning up the place! ben surely didn’t go down the tunnel, taking a trip to tunisia thinking “let’s better hurry, i’ve got somkie waiting for me”. more and more i happen to believe that smokie is a part of someone. like comming out of someone and leaves dirt on him :) ben and widmore might be something like the ying-yang of the island… what the hell! let’s just wait for the next episode! i’m a bit worried we won’t see much of the island in future episodes, once the survivors are in the real world again… that would be a shame!
Comment 149, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost chicka wrote:
Maybe Jacob can move the island, like he moves the cabin? THat would explain the continued supply drops as well, Jacob could just move the island back to where (and when?) the drops were to take place.
Cool about the island scenes being flashbacks now.
Comment 150, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
Yeah! I mean, grief is one thing, but I think Ben showing up off island would kinda make Said a little suspicious about maybe BEN having something to do with Nadia’s death.
Comment 151, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
——
POLI writes:
Well done,lost4ever. You are right on. The lierary homages (ie. Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland-white rabbit, and so on and so on) are not to be taken lightly and the HG WELLS time traveler notion initiates the “SHAPE” episode. Wells also wrote a direct link to LOST in The Island of Dr. Moreau. Read a summary of that book and it goes to a number of CORE Lost plot lines. LOST is dystopian and with the violent, visceral and disturbing killings in SHAPE, all bets are off in terms of survivors. I am more hooked than ever.
With Ben’s inability to kill Widmore. There is now a declared dual epicenter Ben-Charles and agree with many of the comments polarity with Widmore. Yes to Hammer’s point that Hanso is in Widmore’s building. Yes, to Michael’s point that Widmore is literally invested in the Island. Could he have been in the first Dharma and escaped when Ben comes back to carry out the massacre? Agree with the entry that Jacobs will send Ben out..perhaps to confront Widmore.
Comment 152, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Oceanic Mgmt. wrote:
***************************
WAY back in Season 1 (maybe S1E5 or S1E6?) there was a shot from street level of an office building with a man in the window that I thought looked a LOT like Widmore.
I’d have to review to find it but remember thinking it would be a strange coincidence at the time.
Comment 153, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
dukewm wrote:
****************************
Could have been S2 when the Asian Dr. video was being watched in the sequence where he was introducing the origins of the Dharma Initiative and the Dutch couple from Univ of Michigan, then the Hanso Building had a “cameo” appearance. THAT was Widmore in the window!
Comment 154, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
could the reason why ben cannot kill widimore be that the island won’t let him die? like michael couldn’t kill himself bcuz the island wouldn’t let him.
Comment 155, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Jenny (c143) I’ve been wondering the exact same thing! That and how does Claire manage to come out of an explosion with only a few scrapes, all her clothes looking as good as the day she bought them, and then able to run around the island carrying a baby???
Comment 156, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
++++++++
Sorry, I guess I didn’t understand what you are saying at first.
Comment 157, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost chicka wrote:
Sure, but when I ask why, I mean WHY? What is the REASON?
Comment 158, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Anyone else notice that Widmore’s accent seemed different?
Australian or South African or something.
Comment 159, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost chicka wrote:
I think there might be a hint in Claire saying “Charlie?” when Sawyer woke her up. Charlie protected her in the blast?
Comment 160, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
CAG wrote:
—————-
I think the drops continue to happen because someone is doing that for Desmond — either Penny or someone in the Ms. Hawking group.
If Hugo can find Jacobs cabin then I think Hugo can find the island also. Hugo is the key to Jack getting back to the island.
Comment 161, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Tim wrote:
It did sound different. And you are right about Australia AND South African*, because some words were one and some were the other. Of course, his British accent also seemed a bit off in past episodes, so maybe it is the actor and not a key to the plot.
: ) P
*this is a HUGE peeve of mine – like during the Outback commercials, when a man with a South African accent is touting the AUSTRALIAN restaurant. Hire a guy who can actually DO an Australian accent, or here is an idea – an ACTUAL Australian, for pete’s sake!
Comment 162, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
Must be an artsy fartsy thing. They hire straight actors to play gays(Will and Grace), English folks to play Americans(House), etc. Is there a shortage of actors? No.
Comment 163, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
LOVED the episode!!! I’m extremely upset that Ben took advantage of Sayid in his moment of weakness after Nadia’s funeral.
How did Ben get the cut on his arm? And since he traveled to Tunisia before, why was he so confused as to where he was in the middle of the desert? And there just happened to be two random guys on horseback?
Is this episode the one where Jack gets hooked on painkillers? A thought…
October 2005, what is the significance?
Widmore must be immortal, Ben is not. Sayid knows about Penny and will never kill her, no matter what! Sayid has a heart…
My thought: Michael killed the doctor, thrown overboard, and all is washed up to the island, like Des and his boat.
Comment 164, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
After Ben got out played by Keamy, I noticed the big smirk Ben had when he got Sayid to “think it was his own idea” to join cause. He got his mojo back.
Comment 165, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
matt wrote:
–
Actually – I believe Hurley said that “Austrailia is the key to the whole game.” I don’t really know what that means. But I’m sure it has to mean something since that’s where all our losties left from ( :
Comment 166, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
__
And did ben kill Nadia so that Sayid would help him with “his list” ?
Comment 167, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lostrocks wrote:
Oh I disagree. Sayid has always been able to separate what “needs” to be done. His heart is broken by what he believes are Widmore’s actions. And if killing Penny is what is needed for revenge, I think he’ll do it.
Comment 168, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Missy wrote:
++++++++++++
Sure is possible. Why would Widmore have Nadia killed? Just because she married an O6? We need the back story.
Comment 169, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
dukewm wrote:
____
I’m guessing that Widmore has been to the island and therefore can’t die (like Michael). Did anyone think that Widmore looked different and sounded different? He reminded me of Captain Gault in that scene. Maybe it was just the lighting. Anyway, it’s pretty clear that Widmore doesn’t care about the 815-ers at all. So I guess we are to assume that the island brought them there?
I couldn’t believe they killed Alex. I was rocked when that happened. That is one girl who got prettier and prettier each time she was on screne – I hope she’s not gone for good ): RIP Alex.
Comment 170, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
avalanche wrote:
++++++++++++
Not buying it at this point. There are several “special” characters and unless they are all extra terrestrial, I don’t think Ben is either.
Comment 171, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Missy wrote:
Are you saying that once you to the island, the leave you become immortal?
Also, just because the 815 folks are expendable to Widmore doesn’t mean he didn’t set them up to be on the island. I just mean that now that he has found the island he doesn’t need the pawns anymore.
Comment 172, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I read that some of you think that Ben and Widmore had a pact to fight this fight without bringing families into it. If that was the case then Ben would have said ‘That’s my daughter, she’s off limits and you know it’. But he didn’t. He said she wasn’t his daughter. The rules changed but it had nothing to do with families.
Comment 173, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
My mind is still reeling after watching – but here are some things I have to comment on now that I don’t think were mentioned yet –
Did anyone catch at the beginning Jack’s joke about prescibing himself antibiotics? He was holding his right-side, it looked like. Maybe he has appendicitis. That’s not a big deal in the real world – but if you don’t have all the medical supplies it would be very dangerous. Bening a doctor though, you’d think he’d know what was wrong with himself. Odd.
The painting in Widmore’s hallway. It was like they WANTED us to see it. It was illuminated the whole time Ben was talking to Widmore. I think it was of the island.
Miles seemed to get all spooky in the scene when he first came inside the house. Were there spirits in there? Hmm.
Finally (for now) do you think that Ben’s giant scratch could be from a polar bear? It seemed all too coincidental that he’d show up in the same place that the polar bears showed up.
That’s all for now. Keep the good ideas rolling!
Comment 174, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Here in Denver, a commercial for the local news after Lost promoted an interview with the producers of Lost and said “find out what scene you wished you had watched closer”. Besides the obvious answer of “all of them”, anyone know what they might be referring to? When they said it they were showing the scene where Sawyer was (amazingly) dodging the gunfire while he tried to get to Claire. seemed weird to me that they shooters were able to pick off everyone coming out of the house with one shot, but couldn’t hit Sawyer.
Comment 175, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sawyer’s Evil Twin wrote:
You must be remembering it incorrectly. No one ever said anything about not being his daughter. It’s quite clear that killing Alex was the rule changer in Ben’s mind.
Comment 176, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^
But wouldn’t that put Sayid on some “Psycho-killer” level? In the previous FF with Ben, he acts as if he is killing to protect the friends either on the mainland or on the island. So if he could kill Penny, his mindset would be something along the lines of, “they killed my wife, now I’m killing anyone who I think had any involvement in that.” It just doesn’t seem like he has that kind of separation of feelings, I mean he was caught up when he killed the German woman, as if he was sad that he had to do it, but then he could turn around and coldly kill Penny, who he know is the love of Desmond, who went through pretty much the same ordeals as he did to get to Nadia? That would be a bit too much compartmentalization (is that a word?).
Comment 177, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Okay, four things:
I am saddened that those words “She is not my daughter” were the last that Alex heard. I really liked her character. Her and Russo will be missed! I hate Ben!
I can’t believe Locke is so responsive to Ben even after all that he’s done to him. He still never found out why Ben shot him and left him for dead. Then he goes and threatens Sawyer, the man who killed his father for him just because Ben wants Hurley to take them to the cabin. Locke’s beginning to tick me off and he used to be my favorite.
Thirdly, good call on the “Island won’t let Charles W. die” lostchicka. It makes sense!
And lastly, the name on Ben’s puffy jacket when he mysteriously awoke in the dessert. Helliwax? Or something…isn’t his last name Linus??
Comment 178, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
In rewatching Ben at the penthouse, he said “We both know I can’t do that.” when Charles asked if he was there to kill him. Maybe it’s not an issue of immortality as much as one of “rules” that Ben mentions. Maybe the island or Jacob or some higher power(fate?) will ruin Ben if he takes Widmore’s life?
Comment 179, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Lar wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^
For no particular reason, I’m betting it was the scene with Smokey. We heard the chain’s rattling. Another weird thing though is if Ben can summon this thing all willy nilly, doesn’t seem like there is a need for gassing folks.
Comment 180, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
__
And did ben kill Nadia so that Sayid would help him with “his list” ?
Oh my gosh!!! Ben DEFINITELY killed Nadia! He must have! He knew it all along, he needs Sayid for something. Jacob probably told Ben that he needs Sayid, like when Jacob told Ben that he “needs Hurley” to find the cabin.
Comment 181, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Someone asked about the song Ben was playing on the piano. It was a Rachmaninoff prelude, I forget the number.
Is there any possibility that Ben and Widmore are the same person, somehow?
I think “the hostiles” on the island that Ben worked with to get rid of the Dharma folks are ghosts from the black rock ship. That’s probably been discussed before, but I’m new here!
Comment 182, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^
I think S.E.T. brings up a good point. If the rule was something about not killing folks close to you, or daughters, then Ben should have said something to the effect that S.E.T. stated, because that would have reminded Keamy that she is off limits.
But in the show before, Ben was like, “these people if they knew who you were, they’d use you to get to me,” so the “rule” may not be that simple.
There is some inconsistency with why killing Alex was a rule changer. The only rule I could think of right now, was maybe not to kill “innocent” folks.
Comment 183, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
+++++++
We’ll have to agree to disagree because to me it’s obvious why Sayid is doing Ben’s dirty work and Penny would just be collateral damage…just like Libby and Ana were to Michael.
Comment 184, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Wow, what an episode! Intense. A couple of thoughts:
When Ben said “he changed the rules”, I thought he meant that JACOB changed the rules. Then he said to Widmore “you changed the rules”. Still not sure what that meant but it felt like it was something they had done before, and were now doing again only with changed rules. Again, not sure what that means.
What was in Ben’s hand at the hotel, that he brought out while telling the nightwatchman “you can ring them up to check if you like”? As soon as the watchman said, “that won’t be necessary”, he withdrew it. What was it? It felt very starwars, when Obi Wan told the stormtroopers “these aren’t the droids you are looking for…”.
I thought it was REALLY WEIRD that Miles RANG THE DOORBELL. Why wouldn’t he stand out there and shout “Hey it’s me, Miles. Don’t shoot!!! I have something for you, please open up and take the phone” or something like that?
Someone wondered who was worse, Ben or Michael, for their efforts to save their son/daughter. I say Michael is worse: He basically said “screw you” to the losties in order to get what he wanted (Walt). Ben could have done that too, but knew that if they had him, the losties were toast. He tried to save them AND Alex. (By the way, who were the “red shirts” who got shot?)
Ben really has some powerful connections! He had the traffic photo of baldi, very recently taken. He had the penthouse key to Widmore’s place. Who IS he?
OK, one last question: If Ben can teleport through time, why not go BACK to BEFORE Alex was killed, and try to prevent the killing that way (like NOT sending her to the temple, or doing it earlier)? Why not find Penny in the PAST, when he knows where she is, if he wants to kill her? Why not take care of problems/people in the PAST when they aren’t watching out for him yet?
Comment 185, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I loved the symbolism in Widmore’s Penthouse… First of all it was Ben in half of the screenshot, and the painting of the island in the other half.
Ben’s face was clearly Black/White cut in half because of the lighting. This shows his good/bad personality and our confusion in the show. This could be a hint that he IS both good and bad.
I think when Widmore talks about “knowing who you are” to Ben, he is referring to the fact that he is a normal person, son of a janitor, who became a janitor himself, and just killed everyone and took over the island. Widmore knows that he is “nobody” and has manipulated and killed his way to power on the island. Widmore is upset that Ben has come close and overtaken his power.
Comment 186, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Lar wrote:
I think Sawyer was close enough to the corner of the house where they could not get a clean shot. The three that did get sniped were a little farther out. But I do like the idea that they were missing Sawyer – intentionally.
I don’t which scene I wish I watched closer, but the Smokie Attack, ["over the tree line and into the woods, to Jacobs' house we go"] – those scenes usually have lots of hidden images buried in Smokie. We saw Smokie vault over a 30′ tree, race across camp to the shooters, etc… There has to be something in that.
One thing that caught my eye was Alex at the sonic fence. We have been told it was turned-off for weeks now, so when she was turning off the fence AND activating the alarm code to Ben’s hotline, she was only just activating the alarm.
Comment 187, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
^^^^^^^^
Ok we can, agree to disagree, but just one more point. If Sayid always “knew” what needed to be done, Desmond should be dead. I mean there’s only enough juice in the phone for maybe one call, and Sayid says, “you know what, even though we need to get everyone rescued with a SOS call or a call to some kind of authority, I’m going to let Desmond call his long lost love, and we can take our chances later.” Desmond would just be collateral damage in that case right? (Rhetorical question).
Comment 188, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
+++++++++++++
Never mind…you meant when talking to Keamy and I thought you meant when talking to Charles.
But I still think it’s was obvious that killing Alex was the rule changer.
Comment 189, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Something that no has mentioned yet! Remember that the island controls when people die. So people are saying that Ben “left his daughter out to dry”…well, that’s not necesarily true. “The Island” could have saved her.
Am I way off here.
Also, poor Jack…he was wrong and Locke was right (he’s gonna be p o ed about that).
Comment 190, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I am saddened that those words “She is not my daughter” were the last that Alex heard.
===
That’s what I’ve been trying to say with my other posts….but people keep trying to convince me that he was saying those things because he was trying to save her. I know WHY he was saying those things. By saying them he thought he could manipulate the situation. I just think it stinks for Alex. So sad.
Comment 191, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RAY wrote:
As i just said though, we now know that ‘the island’ controls when people die…right? I think that knowledge will now change the whole dynamic of the series. I agree that it’s probably Widmore being on the island that Ben can’t kill him.
Comment 192, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Rita wrote:
The thing in his hand was his little nightstick he beat the desert folks with.
Comment 193, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
^^^^^^^^
Ok we can, agree to disagree, but just one more point. If Sayid always “knew” what needed to be done, Desmond should be dead. I mean there’s only enough juice in the phone for maybe one call, and Sayid says, “you know what, even though we need to get everyone rescued with a SOS call or a call to some kind of authority, I’m going to let Desmond call his long lost love, and we can take our chances later.” Desmond would just be collateral damage in that case right? (Rhetorical question).
+++++++++++++
Dang it, you pulled me in! I didn’t mean “always knows” like a phycic. I meant in “battle” type situations, he knows what he has to do as an enforcer.
Now that he is an enforcer for Ben, he would be able to separate and kill Penny because he thinks the cause is just.
Comment 194, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Ok we can, agree to disagree, but just one more point. If Sayid always “knew” what needed to be done, Desmond should be dead. I mean there’s only enough juice in the phone for maybe one call, and Sayid says, “you know what, even though we need to get everyone rescued with a SOS call or a call to some kind of authority, I’m going to let Desmond call his long lost love, and we can take our chances later.” Desmond would just be collateral damage in that case right? (Rhetorical question).
+++++++++++++
Dang it, you pulled me in! I didn’t mean “always knows” like a phycic. I meant in “battle” type situations, he knows what he has to do as an enforcer.
Now that he is an enforcer for Ben, he would be able to separate and kill Penny because he thinks the cause is just.
^^^^^^
Lol, I didn’t mean like psychic either, I interpreted your take as Sayid always makes great judgment calls in tense situations. When they got to the phone, the only means to communicate, that would qualify as a tense situation in my book. But he relaxed that thought process so that Des could merely talk to Penny. Just disregarded the fact that he nor Des is a doctor and just took Des at his word.
I mean I understand the role you are placing Sayid in, it’s just that it seems that killing the person directly responsible for his wife’s death would seem to end the revenge factor IMHO. So we are back to agreeing to disagree.
Comment 195, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Great ep….couple of things though….First off, i find it hard to believe everyones theory about time travel and portals, when Ben went into the the tunnel i think it was just to release “smokey”, no portal and no time traveling tunnel, just a way to unlease his secret weapon. When we see him in the Sahara there is no way to tell how he got there….for all we know he could have sailed there from the island on Desmonds boat (which would explain the the dharma coat, it tends to get cold out at sea) , somehow cut his arm and started wandering the desert looking for something and passed out due to exhaustion…to me this is more believable than time traveling.
I also find it hard to believe that Ben and Alpert are some sort of E.T. We have a background story about Ben’s childhood, he was born, raised by his father, moved to the island and murdered all of the Dharma Initiative….that is why Widmore has this fued with Ben…from what i gathered from this Ep, Im guessing Widmore discovered the island, started the Dharma Initiative, Ben started a coup and cut all communications with Dharma and Widmore and now this war is to get control of the island and the losties are just casualties of war, with the exception of a few (Locke, and maybe Hurley).
Lastly, I dont think Ben thought Alex would die, he obviously cares for her because even though he may not be her real father, he has raised her since she was a baby and looks at her as his own…He assumed Widmore would tell the mercs to keep family out of it, but that wasnt the case, thats why Ben was so devastated then remarked “he changed the rules”
All in all I am still confused about Ben’s real motives, when he first spoke with Sayid i thought that Ben might actually be one of the good guys, but by the end of the Ep I was just as confused as i was before the Ep. This is easily one of the best Eps of the season though
Comment 196, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
That’s too funny. Sometimes I find it hard to understand people’s meaning when it’s just text, no inflections or tones. :)
Comment 197, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Forgot to mention this before….
I appreciate the fact that we finally get to see how Sayid starts working for Ben, that was one of my biggest questions this season….
Rita, Comment 184……the thing in Ben’s hand was a Baton, the same one he used to hit the arabian guy that was searching him
Comment 198, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
GuttahMan wrote:
I agree with your comments. Ben wasn’t time traveling, though I do think he has access to some sort of portal(maybe the Vile Vortices).
I don’t think he’s ET either.
I think as mention by folks before, the good vs. evil is all about perspective (think “V for Vendetta”).
Comment 199, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
ALEX was ADOPTED. Who was the father? Widmore? Could Pennie be Alex’s sister? WHY would BEN adopt in the first place? To keep the Others “going”…children and babies seem to the ONLY commodity that BEN (and Juliet) value.
Comment 200, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I am amazed at the Ben killed Nadia, & Sayid will kill Penelope, conversation going on.
When did we make this huge leap. All we saw last night was Ben recruit Sayid. Though Ben giving a “knowing” look at the end of the scene implied that recruiting Sayid was the goal, that doesn’t mean that Ben had Nadia off-ed. And the assassin Sayid killed in the alley… I’m pretty sure he wasn’t in on the whole ‘recruit Sayid’ plan.
Plus, just because Sayid is a hitman for Ben, why do we assume that he will be sent after Penelope? Ben runs lots of folks lives. I am sure he has someone that can fill in for Sayid, if Sayid wants to take some ‘personal time’ on ‘whack Penny day’.
Comment 201, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
I know the whole “numbers” thing is getting old, at this point, but the numbers she entered were 16 23.
: ) P
Comment 202, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
re: the obsession with children/pregnancy -
The Valenzetti numbers are counting down to the end of the world
The island will be the only safe haven for repopulation, IF they can get it to work
The rest is just dressing
* Aaron is the key
Comment 203, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Just wondering, where are the children? They have not been mentioned and I do recall that some survived the crash and were kidnapped by The Others.
Comment 204, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
1. I think it is clear that Ben manipulated the entire recruiting process of Sayid. He has been shown to be a master at manipulation many times before.
2. Miles rang the doorbell, because he is with the Army men. Ben makes a statement for them to go back to their helicopter and leave this island.
3. In the last episode, the helicopter was “gone” on the boat. Sayid makes notice of this, remember? It was gone, because the Army men took it for their mission.
4. Ben can talk to Smokie, but not necessarily control him. More than likely, they are on the same side… “protect the island”. Ben let’s Smokie know that outsiders are threatening the island, so Smokie comes and takes care of business. Why not sic Smokie on the Losties? Can it not go through the security fence? Food for thought…
5. Have we ruled out that Ben did not “travel” to the desert the same way Desmond “traveled” to his past? Does Ben have a constant?
Tis all. Cheers!
Comment 205, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
dukewm wrote:
Was thinking about Dan’s deception and maybe because he knows about the time bubble around the island and how difficult it is to explain, is the reason why he just lied about the message. So even though the message said the Doc was ok, and they could see that he’s dead, Dan would know, “well there is some sort of time discrepancy, so the folks on the ship have no clue, and I can’t explain it thoroughly so I’ll just lie.”
Comment 206, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
An intense episode, it was. I’m convinced now that Ben is more of an asset than a liability. Ben and Locke make an unlikely duo but their efforts may be the Island’s only hope.
Comment 207, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
—————-
Either the writers couldn’t let Sawyer get shot for future story reasons or the shooters were told not to shoot Sawyer by Widmore. Could be that Sawyer was planted on the plane by Widmore who hopes to convince Sawyer to do his bidding somehow.
Comment 208, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
Whoa…since when are theories are problem here?
I agree that Ben having Nadia killed isn’t likely but it’s not a huge leap to think that Sayid might be the person he sends to kill Penny. They pretty much set us up to believe that by showing us how Ben recruited Sayid and showing us that Ben is after Penny in the same episode. I admit that it isn’t automatic…but it’s no huge leap.
Comment 209, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
Ben can travel through space and time, but he can’t control what time he travels to. Why else would he be unsure as to what year it is?
Comment 210, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
Brilliant..regarding Sawyer. Each of the chessplayers now has knight to do his bidding…both past killers and present ones with obvious tension from the very beginning. Sawyer vs Sayid as “reps”.
Comment 211, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
Brilliant..regarding Sawyer. Each of the chessplayers (Ben and Widmore) now has a knight to do his bidding…both past killers and present ones with obvious tension from the very beginning. Sawyer vs Sayid as “reps”.
Comment 212, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Ben can travel through space and time, but he can’t control what time he travels to. Why else would he be unsure as to what year it is?
^^^^^^^^
My take that he can’t travel through space and time (other than the bubble) stems from the belief that the writer’s (supposedly) are not bringing us that type of story. They seem fine with conscious traveling, but not the body itself.
Hence, I think he stated the year so as to let the audience know when the time frame of the events are taking place.
Comment 213, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
Ben can travel through space and time, but he can’t control what time he travels to. Why else would he be unsure as to what year it is?
^^^^^^^^
My take that he can’t travel through space and time (other than the bubble) stems from the belief that the writer’s (supposedly) are not bringing us that type of story. They seem fine with conscious traveling, but not the body itself.
Hence, I think he stated the year so as to let the audience know when the time frame of the events are taking place.
^^^^^^
Moreover, if he couldn’t control where in time he was going to end up, it would be way to risky for him to ever go into whatever apparatus (if there is one) to do his “time travel” as he would have no earthly idea of when or where he would end up.
Comment 214, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
Not sure I buy that. I think that if the writers wanted us to know what date it was, they would have put one of those handy-dandy bank calendars on the desk at the hotel that said, “October 21, 2005.”
I think it is more likely that Ben wanted to be sure he ended up in the time/place he had planned on.
: ) P
Comment 215, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
^^^^^^^^
My take that he can’t travel through space and time (other than the bubble) stems from the belief that the writer’s (supposedly) are not bringing us that type of story. They seem fine with conscious traveling, but not the body itself.
Hence, I think he stated the year so as to let the audience know when the time frame of the events are taking place.
^^^^^^
Moreover, if he couldn’t control where in time he was going to end up, it would be way to risky for him to ever go into whatever apparatus (if there is one) to do his “time travel” as he would have no earthly idea of when or where he would end up.
Agreed. That is why I make the leap that maybe there is some sort of portal like the Vile Vortices to get off the island?
Here is a weird one. If was traveling conciously, was maybe his 2005 body resting in state waiting for him to come back so he could properly recruit Sayid? Did he ask the date to make sure he arrived when he intended to?
I still think there is something to him wearing Mr. Hallowax’s jacket too.
Comment 216, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Nothing wrong with theories… but they are usually based on A + B = C. Even if A and B are right or wrong, you just don’t jump to C. You need supporting evidence. Here is my theory – Sayid assassinates Ben in the end because Ben manipulated him. No evidence to prove or suspect, therefore – a poor theory. [;^)
Comment 217, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
What an amazing episode! I have posted a recap, with a summary of the answers provided and the new questions raised, on my blog at http://exploringourmatrix.blogspot.com/2008/04/time-traveller-lost-in-sahara-desert.html
Comment 218, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
Okay so you are saying that Ben recruits Sayid as a killer + Ben wants to kill Penny + Sayid shows he wants to help fight the battle is not enough circumstantial evidence to THEORIZE that Ben would use Sayid to kill Penny? And you think that is a huge leap?
Comment 219, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
i think sector is right on every thing exept with sayid killing penny. and i think that the reson he was shocked that his daughter died was because he had been to the future and his daughter did not die. thats why he kept saying “he changed the rules.”
Comment 220, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Okay.. so I know it looks like I haven’t been around in a while… I really have, just not commenting.
SO, all I can right now is “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!” :)
I had to go off on a 20min tangent as to why Ben CAN’T kill Penny! I’m over Kate/Jack/Sawyer… Des & Pen is all I have in a way of a love story to root for!
The look on Ben’s face when (this is my new name for the army-ish guy) ‘Toothy’ shot Alex was GREAT! Seriously, whoever is in charge of casting is AMAZING!!
I’m going to go read as many posts as I can…
Comment 221, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
eve101 wrote:
What about the fact that in the future he says that Alex is dead and says that he’s going to kill Penny as well?
Comment 222, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Yeah, Hurly said that Australia is the key to the game in Risk, but in LOST the Island is the key to the game. Thats what I mean. This episode is all about game and rules, and losing and winning.
Comment 223, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
+++++
And Ben flat out tells Charles, “…once she’s dead…you’ll wish you hadn’t changed the rules.”
Comment 224, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
Amen to that, Brotha! (Or Sista!)
Comment 225, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
^^^^^^^^
My take that he can’t travel through space and time (other than the bubble) stems from the belief that the writer’s (supposedly) are not bringing us that type of story. They seem fine with conscious traveling, but not the body itself.
Hence, I think he stated the year so as to let the audience know when the time frame of the events are taking place.
^^^^^^
Moreover, if he couldn’t control where in time he was going to end up, it would be way to risky for him to ever go into whatever apparatus (if there is one) to do his “time travel” as he would have no earthly idea of when or where he would end up.
+_+_+__+_+_+_+_
I think Ben asked the date because he came from the island with island time and just wasn’t sure of the “exchange rate” to real time. No necessarily time traveling but Moving from island time to real time.
Comment 226, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
+_+_+_+_+_+
I Don’t think Hugo can find the cabin. Ben leads them on there way. They take Hugo because Jacob will let hugo see the cabin. That might be the same with Hugo finding the Isalnd. Not that he knows where it is but the island will find him.
Comment 227, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Does anyone have a thought on the “specifically Uganda” comment that Ben made to Keamy when talking about his past?
Comment 228, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
Nice. That explains the parka. It is easier to shed a parka in the broiling desert, than to try and find one in the middle of the artcic, when you are wearing a tank-top, shorts and flip-flops.
Comment 229, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
+_+_+_
i was just thing that.
I was brakeing down the senerois as to why the jacket.
Coming from somewhere cold?
Going to some place col?.
The trip is cold?
Or just best to be prepared if you don’t know where or when you are going to end up?
One other thing-Ben being “dropped” off in the desert. Not long after he wakes up two Scouts find him. How did they know where he was and why did they get there so soon. Does being teleported make a noise or something visual.
Comment 230, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
Here’s a poor theory (sorry DocH9(:) Ben was shivering and blew out (what looked to me like) frosted breath. Maybe he first dropped throug a Vortice to the Arctic DHARMA research site, then recalculated and dropped into Tunisia?
Comment 231, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
+_+_+_
Did Ben give a Date when he said that?
Comment 232, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Here are my thoughts:
Ben comes back from tunnel very dirty, yes he was in ‘cave’ but still, he seemed full of soot. I know you say Smokey, but was he hugging Smokey? :) Geez.
Ben was not at all afraid of Smokey, while he said goodbye to his daughter. However, he still insisted that Locke, Sawyer, etc..RUN. So perhaps he does control Smokey but only to a degree. Smokey won’t touch him, but can get the others?
Daniel says something to the effect of “how long, is a relative term”. Well this is obvious, but what I find interesting is that he obviously knew more about the ‘time issue’ then previously let on. Before, he spoke of a possible discrepancy, this episode he didn’t seem shocked that there was a gap in time with doctor.
Rose said in first season how the sounds from jungle reminded her of Bronx, and we often debate about underground system, etc. So wasn’t it interesting how Smokey looked very much like a subway out of control as he charged the freighter snipers?
Sawyer and Claire split up from Ben and Lock, and don’t end up being party of O6. So perhaps that is how Aaron ends up with Kate. However, we know Ben and Hurley survive. I think Locke is manning the island in future, while Ben pursues revenge.
Comment 233, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
+++++++
Might also explain the slash wound someone suggested might have been a polar bear.
Comment 234, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I think that the ’special places’ that the guy in Australia spoke about are like ’stations’. Perhaps Ben can transport to and from those specific places. Maybe Penny had the two guys in snowsuits at one of the places, trying to find island. Where Ben dropped in desert, is that where Charlotte found polar bear skeleton?
Also, could relate to Hurley/Sawyer Risk game, “Australia is the key to the whole game”.
Comment 235, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
++++++
No but he said it was after 2001 because he mentioned the military work that ended in 2001 and said “since then, blah blah…Uganda. So between 2001 and 2004.
Comment 236, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Did anyone catch the different sounding “whoosh” when they first show Ben lying in the desert? There is steam coming off his body and a wound to his arm. Maybe the effects of the time travel does something to limbs, like Dr. Marvin Candle. Wasn’t he missing a limb?
Comment 237, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
- – - -
That caught my ear too. I just assumed that was to establish Keamy’s bona fides, but…
The biggest (recent) connection to mercenaries, in Uganda, that I can find, is in 2001-2002.
They are known for; notorious human rights violations, defending cartels, oil and mineral exploitation…
There are also adept at maritime operations & small vessel tactics, and the kicker, many have ties to, or are former – Scots Guard Regiment. (sound like anyone we know?)
Comment 238, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
++++++++++++++++
More props to you!!! Even though you like to kick dirt in my face. :p.
Thanks. I’m sure that’s was the hint to what Ben was saying…I know who you are and what you are capable of
Comment 239, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
+_+_+_+__+_
There might be something here.
The insurgency flares (March 2002 to September 2005)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army
Comment 240, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
ROTFL. “Please keep arms and legs inside until the ride comes to a complete stop…Thanks and have a wonderful day at Lostmania.”
Comment 241, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Couple of comments
“could the reason why ben cannot kill widimore be that the island won’t let him die? like michael couldn’t kill himself bcuz the island wouldn’t let him.”
1. I think Widmore can’t be killed because he’s been to the island and it seems that people that have been to the island can’t be killed off-island (Michael, Jack on bridge etc). However we know they can be killed on island (Tom, as well as all the 815 survivors that died,Dharma massacre,etc).
2. Is it possible that Widmore was actually on the crew of the Black Rock in the late 1800’s (therefore he “found” it first)? We know Alpert doesn’t seem to age and I think many suspect he was part of the original Black Rock crew. Also does that explain why he had such an interest in buying the crew member’s journal from the Black Rock?
Of course that opens up a million questions like when and how did Widmore get off the island and did he change his name? Is that why he helped fund the Hanso Foundation’s work? I’m sure there are lots of holes in this theory as well.
Comment 242, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
When Ben mentioned Uganda is right after Keamy said he would let everyone go once Ben steps outside…I think Keamy, being a merc, may have had a similar situation in Uganda but instead of letting the Ugandan people go he slaughtered them. Ben knows this therefore he knows that even if he were to surrender, Keamy would still kill the losties…I think that is what the Ugandan reference was pertaining to.
Comment 243, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
No – a good theory. He surely popped in from the cold. The injury – probably not polar bear – but a struggle with Halliwax and his science buddies just to get into the portal (Looking Glass) device. BEN (aka Bug Eyed Ninja) chop-sakied his way thru the crowd with his handy telescoping baton, got to the controls, fired up the ‘way-back-change’, dove in and blasted off for who knows where. (sustaining the minor injury in the process.)
Comment 244, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I read on another site about how Widmore spoke, in last night’s episode with an Australian accent. Until then he used a British accent. I certainly didn’t pick up on it, but I stink at accents, and never pay attention. Anyone notice this? Thoughts?
Comment 245, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
++++++++++
I like it…except I think he was purposely heading toward the Middle East to meet up with Sayid. For the “big recruit” mission.
Comment 246, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Bobbi wrote:
Just me…but I don’t there is anything to it other than a bad accent job. Otherwise, is the suggestion that there are more than one Charles? I doubt that is the case.
Comment 247, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
^^^^^^
Moreover, if he couldn’t control where in time he was going to end up, it would be way to risky for him to ever go into whatever apparatus (if there is one) to do his “time travel” as he would have no earthly idea of when or where he would end up.
Agreed. That is why I make the leap that maybe there is some sort of portal like the Vile Vortices to get off the island?
Here is a weird one. If was traveling conciously, was maybe his 2005 body resting in state waiting for him to come back so he could properly recruit Sayid? Did he ask the date to make sure he arrived when he intended to?
I still think there is something to him wearing Mr. Hallowax’s jacket too.
——————
And because he does not know where he will end up, this explains why he needs all those different currencies and passports we saw in an earlier show. Where ever you “pop in”, you first look around, figure out where you are, ask what date it is, and then take a flight or travel to your real destinations (be it London or LA)
Comment 248, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hey, with Sawyer’s new fondness for Claire, what about the big kiss being those two…that would complicate the triangle a bit eh?
Comment 249, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
A thought about Jack… This ep was the first time that he started having that hopeless look on his face ON THE ISLAND… the same look that he constantly has on the FFs. Hopeless… anguished… lost.
In this ep he blamed it on a stomach ache (and for which he started taking meds that he’s hooked on in the future, as someone else said). And this look of anguish began BEFORE he was told that the people on the boat were never there to rescue them. What’s with Jack’s stomach, anyway?
Comment 250, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lostgrrl wrote:
I’m stumped on the stomach thing. But the anguish I feel is because Jack is quickly realizing that he is wrong and feels like he won’t be able to save everyone. He is realizing that it way bigger than anything he can do.
Comment 251, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
——————
And because he does not know where he will end up, this explains why he needs all those different currencies and passports we saw in an earlier show. Where ever you “pop in”, you first look around, figure out where you are, ask what date it is, and then take a flight or travel to your real destinations (be it London or LA)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I believe he knows where he’ll end up when entering the teleporting device (TD) if it exists. Otherwise, he would have had a pocket full of passports, currency, etc., becuz he’d have to carry it around.
I initially thought that the mark on the jacket was a bullet grazing his arm. Like someone was shooting at him as he entered the TD.
Comment 252, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I love how ABC misled us with their episode preview from yesterday. “Jack tries to discover the identity of a body that has washed ashore.” Faraday told Jack who it was when he first saw him.
Comment 253, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
+_+_+_+_+_+
I did notice something different in his voice, but i took it as him just changing his tone to get a point across.
Comment 254, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Check posts 158, 161 and 162.
: ) P
Comment 255, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
Alan Dale (Widmore) is from NEW ZEALAND. And he spends lots of time in the UK, acting on stage.
His breaks in ‘English’ accent show his KIWI background… which can be sometimes be mistaken for Australia, South African, etc…
Comment 256, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Ben knew what he was doing and that Alex would be killed. Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I do believe that Ben sacrificed his daugther to save the Island. He will stop at nothing to “save” the Island, and did offer up his only daugher to save it from “them.”
Comment 257, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
The novel The Wild Geese by Daniel Carney and the film (1978) with the same name. The plot is that a global British financial syndicate seeks to rescue the deposed leader of a central African nation. It hires a band of mercenaries to do the job.
Comment 258, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Pastor2churches wrote:
Couldn’t disagree more, see all the comments about the rule change and evidence of needing revenge. The dynamics of the battle for island have changed because of this event. He actually went off the island an into Widmore’s house over it. He used to send pawns off the island for dirty work. He is now guilt ridden and wants to avenge her death.
Comment 259, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I wonder who Sayid is after in the episode “THE ECONOMIST”? I thought it was Widmore, but not anymore.
Comment 260, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
Good stuff…thanks.
Comment 261, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
How much do Miles, Faraday, and Lewis know about Whitmore and the hidden objective of the mission? Would they really be ok with the slaughter of the Losties? Faraday was concerned with saving Desmond so he seems to be a stand up sort of guy. But he told Jack that they would not be rescued so he appears to have some knowledge of what the freighter is really after. And if Faraday is just interested in understanding the scientific mysteries of the island, why would Whitmore or the captain even trust him with the real reason for the mission? Just tell him to collect his data and not to ask questions.
Comment 262, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
Why not? This FF just showed why he is being recruited. It didn’t change who Ben is battling.
Comment 263, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
Maybe Penny is the target.
Comment 264, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
But Ben didn’t have any problem finding Whitmore and could have killed him if he wanted, but said that he couldn’t.
Comment 265, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sheppard wrote:
We touched on this in the past. Widmore used them to get to the island to set up the attack. Who knows what else they were promised, but they would likely just be expendable pawns that Widmore would kill off to get rid of “risks” once he gets the island back. It’s a common MO for power tyrant stories.
Comment 266, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
My 2 favorite lines from the show
1. Sawyer in the house “Who’s Charles Widmore?”
Locke replies “Later”
2. Benjamin in Widmore’s penthouse “Im here Charles because you murdered my daughter”
Widmore replies “Don’t stand there looking at me with those horrible eyes of yours”
Comment 267, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sheppard wrote:
Right, as I mentioned earlier…Ben actually said “we both know I can’t do that”. I think there is reason why BEN can’t, but maybe someone else can.
Comment 268, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote,
“Couldn’t disagree more, see all the comments about the rule change and evidence of needing revenge. The dynamics of the battle for island have changed because of this event. He actually went off the island an into Widmore’s house over it. He used to send pawns off the island for dirty work. He is now guilt ridden and wants to avenge her death.”
I agree – sort of – I fully understand that Ben is deeply angered over the death of his daughter. And yes, her death does change the rules. Now will Widmore’s daughter have to die like unto did Ben’s – “you’ll see how I feel” – which action will agian bring the battle into harmony. Ben knows the cost of keeping the island in a very personal way; Charles needs to know that same cost.
Comment 269, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
######################################
I think maybe Marvin Candle/Hallowax/Wickman had stuff(parka) in the Orchid station. The Orchid is the “tele-port” station. The journey from “here to there” is a cold one hence the parka. Also, Ben seemed surprised by the injury as though he had got in during the “trip” . There was a tear in the jacket as well.
Comment 270, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Pastor2churches wrote:
++++++++++++++
Then there is no net gain for sacrificing his daughter if all killing Penny does it make it equal. Hence, he didn’t mean for her to die.
Comment 271, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
1. Parka was worn for where Ben was – not where he was going. (Yes/No)? Me=Yes
2. Ben knew that he would arrive somewhere near (Tozour) Tunisia (within a couple of dozen miles). (Yes/No)? Me=Yes
3. Ben thought he knew when he would arrive in Tunisia, give or take a few days or weeks. (Yes/No)? Me=Yes caveat: he asked the year just to make sure he hadn’t massively screwed-up.
4. Ben went to the middle-east purposely (via the Tunisia portal) just to recruit Sayid. (Yes/No)? Me=NO(ish). Explanation. Tozour is 2100 miles from Tikrit (Nadia funeral). Most of the Med lies between the two places. Now that may be the closet portal to Tikrit, but, it may be thee only portal he had available to him to pop out of. Guessing there is a portal in or near the US, the one on the island, and the polar one – if the island or US portal were under hostile (Widmore) control, and he was losing control of the polar portal, as evidenced by his bodily injuries, the Tunisian portal may just be his version of diving out the back door at the last minute. The Nadia murder in SoCal was 3 weeks before Tikrit. Ben in Tunisia should have been well before that. He got his act together there, headed to the States, investigated (or caused) Nadia’s demise, then headed out to recruit Sayid.
(Someone smarter than me pointed out that we suspect Ben in the bus running over Juliet’s ex-husband, in order to recruit her. Now Nadia is taken out by a car… in order to recruit Sayid? – Now we have a theory a-brew’n)
Comment 272, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
+_+_+++_+_+
Yeah i remember that. He dangled something in front of each of them- Miles=money, Daniel= answer to his research and the same for Juliet i think. That gets them on the island as a diversion then the Mercs go in.
Comment 273, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
jaime wrote:
Damn, I knew I was forgetting something. We know that the Orchid does something special because of the duplicate no#15 bunny. Way to stay on it jaime.
Comment 274, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
——————-
Good point Hammer. A king can’t take out a king. You need a different chesspiece.
Comment 275, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
++++++++
I assume you meant Charlotte Lewis and not Juliet, but yes. Abbadon and Naomi were using these pawns/experts to get to the island, “soften” the target and set up for Keamy and his crew.
Comment 276, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Ben sacrificed his daughter. Let me try this one more time (and I do appreciate your interaction!) I have been saying that Ben sacrificed his daughter for the benefit of the Island. In saying that I did NOT say, 1) That he meant for her to die, 2) that he wanted her to die. He gave her up (allowed her death) to save the Island. Now he will attempt to enact retribution upon Widmore so that Charles will “feel what it is like to lose a daughter.” Ben will do whatever it takes to keep the Island SAFE.
Comment 277, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
+_+_+_+__+_
But if there changing rule would that still apply
Comment 278, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
Comment 279, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
+++++++++++
What I am noticing is that Jacob is not doing the fighting and neither is Widmore. Ben is an extension of Jacob and maybe his “status” makes it not possible?
Going back to DocH’s idea of mob like rules…the top guys are “untouchables” to each other, but if a rogue underling makes a play? Rambling….
Comment 280, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Pastor2churches wrote:
_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Leaving the island to tell Widmore that he is going to kill his daughter would put the Island in more danger.
Comment 281, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
IN the previews for next weeks Ep, juliet says that Jacks Apendix ruptured, so its not necessarily his stomach…..Sorry if this is a spoiler for anyone, but it was in the previews
Comment 282, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Pastor2churches wrote:
Gotcha, but still disagree. There was obvious “shock and awe” in Ben when Keamy shot Alex. He IMO did not sacrifice her. Right up to the very moment she was shot, he thought he was in control and she wouldn’t be hurt because of the “rules”. Therefore no sacrifice, but she was taken.
Comment 283, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
GuttahMan wrote:
—————
DocH are you gonna grab this one? Please read point 4 below. “No spoilers or discussion of episode previews”.
Comment 284, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
+++++++++++
Exactly what I meant the dynamics of the battle have changed. If Locke is in charge and capable…Ben is still taking a big risk by leaving to exact revenge.
Comment 285, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
GuttahMan wrote:
+++++++++++++++
This is where DocH and I agree, rule #4. Certainly not in this read!
Comment 286, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
When I first heard the NEW “whoosh” and saw the steam coming from Ben in the desert, all I could think of was Doc Brown and the flux copacitor ( spellcheck). I cant wait till they show us the Delorean that Ben used.
Comment 287, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
@ 101 & 103 — I got the same impressions as you, but I first thought of Professor Xavier and Magneto. Like they maybe started as friends and became rivals. Only, I’m not sure which one’s Prof. X and which one is Magneto.
@ 123 — The food drops have been bugging me for a while. If the island is so hard to find AND get to, how are the food drops possible? And if Widmore were in charge of Dharma, wouldn’t he then know where the island is because he’d know where the food drops go? Someone else mentioned that perhaps Jacob can move the island and simply moves it to the food drop location, but then Widmore could accompany the food drop pilots and lay in wait of the island coming back. Of course, my theory is faulty here, too — it would probably be a bad idea for Widmore to just drop in on his lonesome.
Hmmm…
Comment 288, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Whitmore said that Ben was trying to find a way to the island. Is Ben trapped off the island, but still trying to protect it? Will he and Jack make it back to the island together?
Comment 289, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Courtney wrote:
Comment 290, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sheppard wrote:
I didnt catch Widmore saying that to Ben. When did that happen?
Comment 291, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Courtney wrote:
My theory is that the food was dropped years ago, but the whole time is working differently on the island thing is causing the food to arrive now.
Comment 292, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sheppard wrote:
I think he said Ben would never find Penny and Ben said Widmore would not find the island…hence the we both have a hunt ahead of us comment.
Comment 293, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sheppard wrote:
+_+_+_+_+_+_
Yeah, it took a rocket 30 minute to get there from the freighter. Imagine how long it would take for something to just fall to it.
Comment 294, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Going back to DocH’s idea of mob like rules…the top guys are “untouchables” to each other, but if a rogue underling makes a play? Rambling….
^^^^^^^^^^^
IMO the people Sayid is going after on the list are likely connected to Penny, in either they have information on her whereabouts, or something along those lines. At the end of last night’s episode, Widmore and Ben acknowledged that they are each in their own race to find Penny/Island…Pennyland.
If Ben needs a pawn to kill Widmore, he already recruited Sayid, and could have brought him along to London, and killed Widmore there, as obviously he had little to no security.
“There Sayid, there’s the man who orchestrated the death of your wife.”
He couldn’t bring Sayid, because he was letting Widmore know, “I’m going after, Penny is it…is that her name?” Sayid would then not be down for that. (I know, I know, Sayid can separate those feelings…but I don’t buy that).
My other question is do folks assume that Ben is protecting the island for some noble purpose? It seems he’s “protecting” the island to protect his asset…one which he likely wrongfully obtained.
Comment 295, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
GuttahMan – not to be cranky, but it specifically states in the guidelines not to discuss episode previews. For the purposes of this site, they are considered spoilers as we only discuss what has already happened on the show itself.
I’m curious as to who thinks Ben is still one of the “good guys.” I thought he was pretty evil last night. Although I understand that he thought they wouldn’t kill his daughter because of the rules, if he really wanted to save her, I think he should have left the house and pretended like he was giving himself up, then try to manipulate the situation. I think his anger comes from guilt because he knows he was responsible for Alex’s death.
He also left Claire and Sawyer for dead, leveraged Sayid’s mourning for his own purposes, is out to kill an innocent girl (Penny) for revenge on her father, and he killed a couple of random guys in the desert. Pretty bad stuff in my book, regardless of his larger agenda.
Comment 296, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sci Fi Girl wrote:
I like the way you write. Some ideas you gave me.
(E->E) Ben has been evil – will continue to be evil.
(G->E) Ben has really been good the entire time – but will turn evil.
(G->G) Has been good – will be good in the future.
(E->G) Has been evil – will be good.
- – - –
Who says Penny is innocent. We’ve seen her mostly through Desmonds’ eyes – but he is easily duped. As a ‘Daddy’s girl, she may deserve every bit of the whooping Ben has coming her way. But I hope not, I like the ‘innocent’ Penny better.
Comment 297, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Polli Kovitch wrote:
No No, Russo was really Alex’s Mom. Ben stole her from Russo. Am I wrong people?
Comment 298, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Okay; I’ve never posted on here, but I’ve been a reader. I have one question to pose. Do we wonder how Ben has access to so much information, was treated like a VIP in Tunisia if he is supposed to be this islander?
Here’s my two cents. At some point, possibly after Ben took over the Dharma project people, Ben was in a deal with Widmore that he would stay on the island and find out its powers and secrets. Might fit in with things especially if Widmore was in charge of the Dharma project to find out the powers of the island before Ben got there. Then, Widmore decided he wanted the island for himself because Ben was becoming too powerful there. Widmore decided he was coming back for the island himself. Widmore “changed the rules” of their agreement when he killed Ben’s daughter. Widmore feels the island is his because possibly his family was involved with the trade ship that crashed there so long ago. Then Ben comes along and thinks he has this stronger connection to it? Okay, I think I might be rambling now…
Thoughts???
Comment 299, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
+_+_+_+_+_+__+
Intresting. I guess its all in ones perspective. Bens dad blamed him for bens mothers death. His birth killed someone. Does that make hime evil?
Comment 300, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
My darling (a LOST virgin, who dutifully listens to my “too many commercial” rants and retelling of odd plot tangents) said something last night which sounded quite ridiculous on first hearing it. However, in mulling it over, I suppose it might possibly have some merit.
What if the food drops are on some kind of perpetual timer? You know, like one of those pet food dispensers that turn every 24 hours to reveal more food. What if there is some kind of robot-controlled plane that flies over the island every thirty days (or whatever) and drops a bundle each time?
Just a random thought.
: ) P
Comment 301, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
kdee22 wrote:
+_+_+_+_
Ok. So Ben was to Widmore Like Locke is to Ben know.
Widmore could have left the island to have his child then ben never let him back.
Comment 302, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
____________________________________
Attention, everyone. Bomb to follow:
I think eve is onto something. It took me awhile to think this through but here goes… The way time travel works is that it is entirely theoretical. In theory, you can not have time travel without paradox (i.e., if you went back in time and killed your grandfather before your parents were concieved, you would never have existed in the first place). The only way to find out how it really would work would be to conduct time travel experiments. The writers have expressed that the story of Lost is non-paradoxical. I take this to mean that they are using writer’s perrogative to leave paradox out of the equation. In other words, they are defining how the process works within their story. One aspect as to the way it works is course-correction. You can change how Charlie dies but you can’t change the fact that he will die. Charlie dies is a rule. You can change who is on the plane but you can’t change the fact that the plane will crash. Plane crash is a rule. Des can change whether or not he buys the ring but he can’t change the fact that he doesn’t propose. That’s a rule. I’m not sure about other rules — the writers are making them up. I believe Alex surviving was a rule. Ben said as much. This strengthens my theory that Ben can see into the future in flashes like Des can. Not the whole future, just flashes. Futhermore, Alex’s death means that you can change the rules. Ben previously thought this was not possible.
Comment 303, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^
My other question is do folks assume that Ben is protecting the island for some noble purpose? It seems he’s “protecting” the island to protect his asset…one which he likely wrongfully obtained.
—
1) i don’t think island is an ‘asset’/object, which Ben has obtained. Island has certain powers and is perhaps not something you just come and take control over. Not your regular piece of land…
2) Does Ben really control the island? Maybe just access to it to some extent
3) If Ben is not ‘protecting’ the island, then what do you think his mission is? To get beaten up by Losties and others, watch Alex killed etc just for fun?
4) If Ben is not ‘protecting’ the island then why original island inhabitants (Alpert, etc), who as we were led to belive used to live in harmony with the island before Dharama came, why they didn’t get rid of Ben? Why they and Ben are on the same team? What is the objective of the original inhabitants then?
I also don’t think that Ben is the only top dog, he does a lot of dirty work himself… now Jacob may be…
Comment 304, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
__________________________
Sawyer is my favorite character. He gets all the best lines. e.g. “You and me ain’t done Zeke.”, “It’s about time we get to kill someone.” Both from my favorite episode “Three Minutes”.
Comment 305, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
More questions remain from my perspective.
1. If that was the story of how Ben recruited Sayid, what abt what they said in EP3? Ben:”Remember the last time you thought with your heart instead of you gun?” Sayid:”You used that to recruit me into killing for you.” Where was that scene???
2. Will we see Widmore with 4 toes???
3. Why did smokey kill the pilot and Eko?
Oh, btw, the painting on Ben’s wall is a portrait of his mom.
Comment 306, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Andrew wrote:
It’s not “where” Penny is but “when” she is?
Comment 307, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
—
1) i don’t think island is an ‘asset’/object, which Ben has obtained. Island has certain powers and is perhaps not something you just come and take control over. Not your regular piece of land…
2) Does Ben really control the island? Maybe just access to it to some extent
3) If Ben is not ‘protecting’ the island, then what do you think his mission is? To get beaten up by Losties and others, watch Alex killed etc just for fun?
4) If Ben is not ‘protecting’ the island then why original island inhabitants (Alpert, etc), who as we were led to belive used to live in harmony with the island before Dharama came, why they didn’t get rid of Ben? Why they and Ben are on the same team? What is the objective of the original inhabitants then?
I also don’t think that Ben is the only top dog, he does a lot of dirty work himself… now Jacob may be…
^^^^^^^^^
Then the asset would be the control of the access, or whatever you want to define it as it relates to the island and the fact that he seems to be in control of some aspects.
If Ben is not protecting the island, his mission is to make sure that no one else has control of his asset (whatever you want to define it as it relates to the island).
The original inhabitants did not get rid of Ben because they needed him initially, as he was probably a key person in orchestrating the purge. He can speak with Jacob, perhaps the original inhabitants can not.
Though they appear to be on the same team, Alpert seems like he is taking steps to get Locke to replace Ben. Moreover, if everything was hunky doorie with Ben and his relationship with the original inhabitants, he would not need to lie to his constituents.
The objective of the original inhabitants is probably to live w/o outside disturbances, so while Ben is helping to achieve that, he is not doing that from an altruistic, “gee, I’ve got to help these poor inhabitants” reason, imho.
With control of the island comes power, power he does not want to readily give up.
Comment 308, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
^^^^^^^^
That’s a gr8 catch concerning the “recruitment.”
Comment 309, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Great episode.
As usual, more questions than answers.
few comments:
1) perspective on Ben letting his daughter die – Ben claims if he gave himself to Mercs, everyone else would die. Daniel confirmed that to Jack when he told him they weren’t there to rescue the Losties. Ben, by letting daughter die but not being taken, might actually be seens doing a selfless act for the Losties.
2) related comments:
at end of season 3, Locke says to Jack (as Jack is going to use the satellite phone) “you’re not supposed to do that.”
Ben says to Widmore “you changed the rules.”
as if each, Jack and Widmore, somehow their actions changed a timeline. Keep in mind how Jack’s reporting on his father’s drunkenness caused his father to spiral, go to Australia, and die.
3) Is Des (who is my favorite character) a pawn of Widmore? Is Locke? Think about it: Des gets in boat race and ends up on island. Locke won’t enter #s and push button. Des “saves” the day by turning key. All of which leads to magnetic pulse and guys being able to find the island. Hmmmm
Comment 310, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Tim wrote:
Yes! I think the actor (Charles Widmore) is actually Australian. When he was on The OC he had American accent, done very well. Then on Ugly Betty I think he has an American Accent, originally he was definately Brittish as is Penny. Now I think the cat’s out of the bag, maybe he is actually Austrailian on the show and he’s not Brittish.
Comment 311, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
****************************
Not bad (as theories go): Ben’s ability to see into the future (like Des) in flashes could explain how he obtains all his information on those he needs to know about. Maybe he can even “flash forward” at will, take mental notes of the situation and then research the appropriate people so that he knows all about them when the real time actually arrives ?
i.e. his mind can time travel at will, whereas it only happens to Des randomly.
We know Des has flashes that MAY be linked to his radiation exposure from when he blew the Swan (ha, should have said blew the hatch).
Could Faraday be developing his “flash forward” ability on the Island due to his radiation exposure back at Oxford ?
Does Ben have a radiation episode in his past ?
Comment 312, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
***************************
1. The scene was from the Vet’s office in Berlin right after Sayid killed Else.
Comment 313, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
TheoryNut wrote:
Read ahead to comment 255 (rule 1)
DocH wrote:
But you knew that.
Comment 314, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Just a few things ….
1. Does anyone know where to get a screen image of Ben in the Dharma Parka? It’s from the Orchid staion and i want to see the Orchid Sation logo…from my memory we have not seen it yet.
2. Did you all notice that Charles Widmore had the painting of the Black Rock, which we saw hanging on the auction house wall, on the wall next to his bed?
3. Regarding Ben’s paiting…this seemed to be a new version. It’s slightly different then the one’s we have seen in the past.
Comment 315, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
With just 4 ep’s left in S4, does anyone have any inside info on WHEN the S4 Box Set will be released ?
Is S5 scheduled to start FEB ‘09 ?
That’s another LONG WAIT brotha!
But hey, it’s great to have it back for now!
Comment 316, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
TheoryNut wrote:
**** sorry about the redundency*** i just finished reading all the posts!
Comment 317, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
dukewm wrote:
——————–
I was quoting from that scene. I was asking where is the scene where Sayid thinks with his heart instead of with his gun…
Comment 318, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
dukewm wrote: Does Ben have a radiation episode in his past ?
I bet he does and it happens before the purge.
Comment 319, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sayid’s heart seems to “get in the way” a lot. He let Nadia go, putting himself in danger. He really fell for German Girl and got himself shot. Nadia gets killed (bcuz of ben or widimore?) and he sells his soul, or at least what’s left of it. But I don’t think he would kill Penny bcuz his heart would get in the way bcuz he wouldn’t want to put Des through what he’s been through.
I still can’t believed they killed Karl, Danielle, AND Alex!!! All of them would’ve had AWESOME flashbacks! And we NEVER got to see them!
Ben can’t go back and prevent Alex from dying bcuz destiny has a way of course correcting itself (or something like that). That’s why Des had to save Charlie over & over bcuz each time he saved him destiny would find another way to kill Charlie.
There’s no clear cut on any of the characters. Ben seems good sometimes, and bad sometimes, but in this ep Ben is TERRIBLE!!!! He’s such a manipulating, conning, human sacrificing, serial killing, mob boss, brain washed, phsyco….but I love him & his stupid little bug eyes & amazingly gelled hair!!!! I swear the island has a whole garage for all his hair gel!
What does “the doctor is fine” mean??? It has to be something like “tell my sister I love her.” maybe something like “we have ben’s man?” or some weird thing. But then, why kill the doctor? I guess it could just be the time change, but that bothers me…
Comment 320, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
DocH wrote:
I would say way before “The Purge”, maybe in the womb – why did Mom die? Look at the huge bug-eyes. When he sticks out his tongue 15 inches and licks his eyes like a frog… then we’ll know for sure.
Comment 321, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
I think the answer to what I think you might be asking is that “… think with heart instead of gun…”, probably refers to the FF fact that Sayid gave Elsa a free pass in the nookie department, and she turned the table on him and shot him before he could get to the ‘economist’ person. It could also mean, in FB terms that, Sayid gave girlfriend Nadia a way out of prison, affecting his military career and good standing in his society.
Comment 322, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
======================================================
How would it put the island in more danger? Widmore is going to keep trying to get the island no matter what. Having his daughter’s life threatened will not make his goal any more set than it already is. Ben had to tell Widmore what he thought of the “rule” change. The game is on! That’s Ben’s way of saying, you f##k with me, I’ll f##k with you!
Comment 323, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Noah wrote:
I was wondering about Ben having a constant. Could it be Charles Widmore and that is why Ben said that he couldn’t kill him?
Comment 324, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Popular Mechanics has a good LOST story, if you want to geek out with the writers.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/science_news/4260693.html
Comment 325, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
__________________
Well, Sayid told Ben abt Elsa and Ben’s response was, “Remember the last time…” then Sayid’s response was “You used that to recruit me…”, alluding to a scene that takes place after Nadia dies and before EP3. Maybe they just haven’t shown that scene yet.
Comment 326, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
dukewm wrote:
Season 5 is scheduled for late Jan. I think they are having 17 EP the next 2 years. Im sure the boxset wont be out until around thanksgiving like last year. They make good christmas presents.
Comment 327, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
jaime wrote:
++++
I don’t know who said it a while back, but someone pointed out that Charlotte’s initials/name are C.S. Lewis. Since then I have thought of the teleport as the “the wardrobe” and when Ben went into that strange door in his bat cave it reminded me even more of the wardrobe. My theory is this: Ben gets where he wants to go through time and space through the wardrobe in the batcave (secret room in his house). No one would know when he is coming and going because it’s right in his house. I don’t think it’s in the Orchid. Too inconveniently located.
Comment 328, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sci Fi Girl wrote:
====
Well said. Every bit of it.
Comment 329, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RAY wrote:
____________________
I’m not convinced that Ben is more evil than Charles. Charles sent his men to kill innocent crash survivors. Ben wouldn’t let Michael blow up the boat with innocent people on board. What abt the purge you might ask? Whoever died in the purge must not have been innocent.
Comment 330, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I just watched it now…
And had to come in just to say
HOLY CRAP!
Now, I’ll gather my thoughts, read the posts, and try to say something halfway intelligent.
ACK!
Topping this episode will be one hell of a job.
Comment 331, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
somebody was commenting about the mercenarys in africa. here is smokemonster having a go at one of the soldiers. looks like the head of a ______ attacking.
gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=113210&fullsize=1
Comment 332, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Was Alex’s Ben’s daughter or not? Anyone know?
Comment 333, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
jaime wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=112825&fullsize=1
Comment 334, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
___________________________________
Attention, everyone. Bomb to follow:
I take this to mean that they are using writer’s perrogative to leave paradox out of the equation. In other words, they are defining how the process works within their story…. I’m not sure about other rules — the writers are making them up. I believe Alex surviving was a rule. Ben said as much. This strengthens my theory that Ben can see into the future in flashes like Des can. Not the whole future, just flashes. Futhermore, Alex’s death means that you can change the rules. Ben previously thought this was not possible.
^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree that this is a plausible theory, but my issues with it stem from the fact that the “rules” appear to be arbitrary and circular. In other words, the only “rules” that occur in this theory, are the things that actually happen. So if something happens then this theory would state, (for example) “see, the ship’s doctor had to die” and/or it could be extended to state, “the doctor had to get his throat slit that’s the rule.”
Further, at a minimum, Ben would have then misinterpreted what he thought was a “rule,” if one supports the theory that you can’t change the future it’s already predetermined.
I am leery of believing Ben has an at will ability to look into the future. It either would give him unprecedented power, or (in being consistent with you can’t change the future) no power at all, in that yeah he may know what is going to happen, but he can’t do anything to change it anyway so why try?
Comment 335, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Michael wrote:
Actually, accent aside, I was just realizing there is a Charles and a Charlie.
Comment 336, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree that this is a plausible theory, but my issues with it stem from the fact that the “rules” appear to be arbitrary and circular. In other words, the only “rules” that occur in this theory, are the things that actually happen. So if something happens then this theory would state, (for example) “see, the ship’s doctor had to die” and/or it could be extended to state, “the doctor had to get his throat slit that’s the rule.”
Further, at a minimum, Ben would have then misinterpreted what he thought was a “rule,” if one supports the theory that you can’t change the future it’s already predetermined.
I am leery of believing Ben has an at will ability to look into the future. It either would give him unprecedented power, or (in being consistent with you can’t change the future) no power at all, in that yeah he may know what is going to happen, but he can’t do anything to change it anyway so why try?
So your issue is that the writers are making up the rules? Ok.
I’m not saying the doctor dying is a rule. The ones I mentioned are rules that have been defined up to this point. Doctor dying has not been defined as a rule.
I never stated that Ben could see the future at will. I believe it happens similar to the way it happens with Des — in flashes. And it does give him the power to stay a step ahead of everyone else.
Sorry, but I don’t think you debunked my theory.
Comment 337, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
As far as we know, Alex was not Ben’s biological daughter. Alex was taken by the Others when she was a baby. We are lead to believe that Ben adopted her as his daughter.
Comment 338, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RAY wrote:
_________________
I think I’m making a case for Ben being good in the sense that he is trying to protect the island from falling into the wrong hands. I think it makes for great storytelling that they paint him to be bad — and everyone sees it that way, when in fact, he is protecting the island and having to make difficult decisions and sacrificies in a noble effort.
Ben thought there was no way Alex would be killed, that’s a rule after all. I think if he thought there was a chance, he would have played it differently.
As for leaving Claire and Sawyer, as much as I like Sawyer, he is a killer — he has killed more than one person in cold blood. Leaving Claire is a decision that boils down to protecting the island.
As for manipulating Sayid, that’s also to protect the island.
As for his desire to kill Penny, I think that’s a revenge kick. Still, not as evil as Charles.
Comment 339, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
I understand now (and agree). Good point. Thanks.
Comment 340, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
He did kill in cold blood… so have most of the Losties, Tailies and Others.
James Ford killed the crab shack guy in Australia, whom he was led to believe was the con man that lead to his families ruin (a two decade quest). Then on the island, he killed the con man (Seward/Cooper) that actually did destroy his life (and Locke’s). Then he shot Tom after the Others raided the beach camp and were going to kill Jin/Sayid/Bernard. Who did I miss? He may have gotten a few of the Others, a Tailie or two, maybe dinged a freighter thug. I think the only ‘cold-blooded’ kill was the one in Australia. The Brig kill of Cooper was a ‘crime-of-passion’ not cold-blooded. The taking of Tom was self-defense/passion. Sawyer is my fave as I think he will be the greatest story of ‘redemption’ on the show… I just hope his story is not ultimately ‘tragic’.
Comment 341, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
So your issue is that the writers are making up the rules? Ok.
I’m not saying the doctor dying is a rule. The ones I mentioned are rules that have been defined up to this point. Doctor dying has not been defined as a rule.
I never stated that Ben could see the future at will. I believe it happens similar to the way it happens with Des — in flashes. And it does give him the power to stay a step ahead of everyone else.
Sorry, but I don’t think you debunked my theory.
^^^^^^^^
Though you didn’t say Ben can control his time flashes, another person did so I was addressing that comment in my response to you.
But again, the “rules” that you state that occur are arbitrary and circular. So while yes it could be a theory that fits what is going on, I am of the opinion that if that is the case it won’t be reliable, or consistent.
Though you didn’t say the doc dying is a rule, why isn’t it one? Because you or the writers decided it is not? So while situation X is a rule, situation y is not and so on and so forth. What would be the difference…”whatever I decide in my head.”?
That theory would be stronger imho, IF one can change the future. However we are uncertain if that can occur in the Lost world (though I believe it can not). So even if he can see the future, if he can’t change it, there’s no real advantage in an “end of the day” kinda world.
Comment 342, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
++++++++++++
Magnets can attract and repel each other but always attract other magnetic metals that arn’t polorized or magnitized. Aluminum is not magnetic, nor is (I think) nickel, silver or Gold or copper. Steele is magnetic. Many metel items, such as the chains Regina was wearing, are a blend of different metals. Gold and silver are blended with other metals for strength.
Comment 343, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I think I’m making a case for Ben being good in the sense that he is trying to protect the island from falling into the wrong hands.
^^^^^^^^^^^
This assumes that the island being in his hands is a good thing. If it were a good thing, and the island heals, why did he develop a tumor?
I think it makes for great storytelling that they paint him to be bad — and everyone sees it that way, when in fact, he is protecting the island and having to make difficult decisions and sacrificies in a noble effort.
^^^^^^^
It would be interesting, but imo, they would have to show him doing SOME good to balance out his negative actions. For example, in “24″ Jack Bauer does bad things, for a noble cause, and the viewer gets to see the bigger picture, the anguish he goes through etc. I can’t recall anything purely good that Ben has done.
Ben thought there was no way Alex would be killed, that’s a rule after all. I think if he thought there was a chance, he would have played it differently.
^^^^^^^^^^
This statement seems to assume that it is a set in stone “rule.”
As for leaving Claire and Sawyer, as much as I like Sawyer, he is a killer — he has killed more than one person in cold blood. Leaving Claire is a decision that boils down to protecting the island.
As for manipulating Sayid, that’s also to protect the island.
^^^^^^^^^^
This assumes Sayid is working to off list members that are after the island, as oppose to list members that may be connected to Penny. In addition it ignores the option of Ben manipulated Sayid, simply so that he can regain control of the island all to himself.
As for his desire to kill Penny, I think that’s a revenge kick. Still, not as evil as Charles.
^^^^^^
This seems to assume that Charles’ attempts to regain the island (assuming it was in his control b4, based on his comments to Ben) is not of a noble purpose (though right now I doubt that it is).
Ben killed all kinds of Dharma folks in the purge, perhaps Widmore saw that a “rule” change, making him ok with getting back the island at all costs.
Comment 344, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
^^^^^^^^
Though you didn’t say Ben can control his time flashes, another person did so I was addressing that comment in my response to you.
But again, the “rules” that you state that occur are arbitrary and circular. So while yes it could be a theory that fits what is going on, I am of the opinion that if that is the case it won’t be reliable, or consistent.
Though you didn’t say the doc dying is a rule, why isn’t it one? Because you or the writers decided it is not? So while situation X is a rule, situation y is not and so on and so forth. What would be the difference…”whatever I decide in my head.”?
That theory would be stronger imho, IF one can change the future. However we are uncertain if that can occur in the Lost world (though I believe it can not). So even if he can see the future, if he can’t change it, there’s no real advantage in an “end of the day” kinda world.
______________________
I appreciate your clarification and respect your opinion. I hope I can make my point clearer without writing a novel.
Doc dying isn’t a rule because the story has not proven it — and it has for the plane crash, Charlie’s death, and Desmond going to the island. I’m not making up what a rule is, the story is (the writers are). Those are the only rules I can easily conclude/recall.
Alex surviving was a rule, then she was killed. This means you can change the future. Before that moment, Ben thought the future, at least the rules set in the future could not be changed.
It’s like the theory where you go back to before the dinosaurs and step on a bug that would have led to the era of the dinosaurs. Well you changed something, but eventually the dinosaurs come to be through other means. Dinosaurs coming to be is the rule in this example.
Comment 345, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
_________________________
I consider the killing of Tom to be cold-blooded because Tom said he surrendered. What do you think Hugo thought? I agree abt Sawyer’s redemption — I hope so too.
Comment 346, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Noah wrote:
+++++++++++
Why wouldn’t Ben have called smokey when the freighter arrived. Perhaps he couldn’t call him untill “he changed the rules.” Hammer??
Comment 347, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
——————-
He tried to put the marshall out of his misery. He has come along way on though. He is also really fast, to duck all those bullets when the other 3 people were taken out in single shots, amazing.
Comment 348, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Too amazing, IMO. Leads me to believe Widmore wants Sawyer alive.
Comment 349, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
Nowhere near cold blood. Cold blood would be if Sawyer had a means and a way to free the three hostages, freed them, escaped/evaded… then went back and popped one in Tom. That is cold blood.
Sawyer organized the rescue with Juliet and Hugo crashed the party in the Vanagon, throwing the advantage to the Losties, and the tactic into chaos. All men were down, and Tom, out-gunned, tossed out the “I surrender”, in the heat of battle. Sawyer immediately capped him (heat of the moment/passion). Hurley the Compassionate – “Dude – he surrendered.” Sawyer the Noble – “I didn’t believe him.” Neither did I.
Tom was a first class, 1A, primary combatant and would be a liability if taken prisoner by inexperienced captors at wits end. Tom led raids on beach camps to capture women and children. Tom took Walt off of the raft, and ordered the raft fired-on, punching a hole in Sawyers’ shoulder and nearly killing him with infection. Tom left the rafters’ to die in the open ocean. Tom was one of his primary captors/tormenters in the polar bear cages on the Hydra Island. Tom captured the main Losties near the Pearl, Tom led the final raid to kill remaining Losties on the beach. So not cold-blood – passion – heat of the moment.
I am surprised that Tom even got the words “I surrender” out of his mouth. It it were me, when his mouth started to form the word “I”, my first bullet would be in the back of his throat.
(I say this – professionally speaking of course.)
Comment 350, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Bruno wrote:
Agreed. That is why I make the leap that maybe there is some sort of portal like the Vile Vortices to get off the island?
Here is a weird one. If was traveling conciously, was maybe his 2005 body resting in state waiting for him to come back so he could properly recruit Sayid? Did he ask the date to make sure he arrived when he intended to?
I still think there is something to him wearing Mr. Hallowax’s jacket too.
——————
And because he does not know where he will end up, this explains why he needs all those different currencies and passports we saw in an earlier show. Where ever you “pop in”, you first look around, figure out where you are, ask what date it is, and then take a flight or travel to your real destinations (be it London or LA)
++++++++
Makes sense. Ben “tried out” several languages before the camel guys understood him.
Comment 351, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
____________________
Point made. You’re right. Nice work!
Comment 352, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
re: Sawyer
lost4ever wrote:
I looked again. The corner of the building protected James from the those shots. The three that got hit were farther out from the building and static. In the open, Sawyer was jinking, ducking and returning fire – all good tactics, but he was fortunate there – if the shooters were as good as we believe they are. If he had ‘covering fire’ from his friends, that would have been better. The smoke from Claire’s exploded house may have also helped obscure him getting to her, and returning with her.
eh – Hollywood, who knows? Though they are usually pretty good with Small Team Tactics (STT) now-a-days.
Comment 353, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
5 Things
1) Charlotte gets on my nerves. Just the way she stares at everybody like “i can’t believe i’m stuck with these people.” or her “do i look like i’m gonna talk to you.” i like miles more than her right now. And faraday is starting to make me wonder if he’s more of a player then I thought he was. first faraday says taking them home isn’t their primary objective, and now they never planned to take them home. grr…tator tots!
2) they did take hurley bcuz he knows where the cabin is – ben said so. i think jacob will be the reason why he’s sorry he went with locke.
3) what does widimore have nightmares about??? the island? ben? penny being with des? the bad things he’s done? (meaningless questions i ask)
4) Hammer (c248): i could see it. or maybe claire will give aaron a kiss. or maybe it is vincent & mikhail’s cat! :)
5) a couple reasons i think could be why ben can’t kill widimore:
1) i still think it could be bcuz the island won’t let widimore die
2) ben always says he’s not the killer (altho he has killed his father, the rest that i can think of he planned & had somebody else do so he’s not techinichaly a killer)
3) it’s against the rules
(i haven’t read all the comments, so sorry if any of this has all ready been said)
Comment 354, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
We have only seen evidence of one food drop as yet and I think that Locke “ordered” it when he was in Patchys house/bunker thing. He was playing with the computer and sonething came up about a food drop.
Comment 355, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Jenny wrote:
I think Miles thought he was one of the “tough guys” and found out he wasn’t even close.
Comment 356, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
Comment 357, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost chicka wrote:
Planning and giving orders to kill would actually technically make him a killer. See: “A Few Good Men,” all kinds of mobster movies, Law & Order Criminal Intent.
Comment 358, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote: So the gist of your rule theory is that it takes one or two more episodes of consistency before something becomes a rule?
I guess what I’m asking you, for your theory, is when do you know something is a rule? As I understand what you’re saying (and I admit to not being the brightest bulb) the ship’s doctor dying IS a rule. I think other rules include: Tom dying, Daniel turning off the gas, and Miles asking for exactly 3.2 million (that would explain the arbitrary amount).
____________________________
I admit, it’s difficult to identify the rules in this story. I think it’s clear that Charlie dying was a rule. The story went way out of it’s way to tell us that. Ms. Hawking flat out told us that Desmond not marrying Penny and going to the island was a rule. My opinion that the plane crash is a rule stems from the fact that it’s the basis for the story so far. To change that rule is to tell a story other than Lost. According to Bens reaction to Alex’s death, I’m led to believe that her survival was a rule. There are NO OTHER rules I can currently conclude at this time. All other occurrances in the story, unless someone can make a strong case for it being a rule, are variables. I would say everything you mentioned above is a variable. Those things do not have to occur for the strory to work itself out as we know it. Now, the Oceanic 6 leaving the island is more of a rule. That has to happen for our story to proceed.
Comment 359, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
A question to pose regarding Ben “summoning” smokey:
If, as alot of us are assuming, that Ben went into his secret, secret room/ tunnel to summon smokey…Did smokey get summoned at all while Ben was being held captive in the swan station? If smokey WAS seen while he was being held, then not just Ben can control Smokey. But we did go through a dry spell without seeing smokey for awhile – was it while Ben was being held?
Anyone know the answer?
Comment 360, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
When Ben went into the heiroglyph ’secret’ room, is that the point that he traveled to the Sahara, went to Tunisia, recruited Sayid, then came back and released Smokie before re-emerging to tell the losties to run for the tree-line.
Literally as soon as Alex was shot and he said the rules have changed, he set in motion his plans to raise the stakes by travelling to October 2005 and recruiting his assassin. Perhaps neither Widmore or Ben were responsible for Nadia’s death, she could have been an unrelated killing, but Ben’s knowledge of the death could have been a way for him to manipulate Sayid into believing they have a common enemy. After the Flash Forward had played out, Ben returns back to immediately after Alex was shot.
I only wish Sayid was not on the freighter, as this would allow him to potentially be Ben’s ‘Constant’ thus removing physical time travel/teleportation and just keeping it on a conscious level. Any thoughts? Can a character have multiple ‘constants’?
Comment 361, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Dr Illard wrote:
______________________
Ben did not enter the secret cave with a jacket on, so I don’t think it happened the way you described. Possible, yes. But what about the jacket and the cut on the arm? It doesn’t add up.
I said after “The Other Woman” that I thought Juliet was Ben’s constant. Ben to Juliet:”You are mine!”
I also think it’s possible that every character with abilties does not need a constant.
Comment 362, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Missy wrote:
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+
Think Smokey’s more like a guard dog or an alarm system. It may have settings for day to day use but then can be summoned to do specific task.
Comment 363, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
1. During the Ben/Widmore exchange, didn’t Ben say “you’ll never find it?,” meaning the island? Widmore also said something like “you’ll never find her?,” meaning Penny? Hasn’t Ben previously mentioned that Widmore hasn’t found the island? Isn’t that what he told Locke? Seems the race is on! Which one will be found first? Yes, I think “the rules” are quite complex and have deep Ben/Widmore history involved in them.
2. Run, Penny, run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3. Miles: I don’t trust him for beans!!! He has devious, shifty eyes.
4. Faraday: Soft heart (or is that fake?), terrible liar, I want Jack to smack him and make him talk! Come on, Jack! I want to trust Faraday, but I don’t yet. C.S. Lewis just seems to be his sidekick.
5. Sawyer: Killer, yes, but The guy is fiercely loyal. There was no stopping him from going to get Claire. Sawyer trusts no one and saw Tom as a threat. I think Sawyer really regretted killing Cooper. He was absolutely shaken to the core by what he did. I thought it was quite touching how he wanted to “protect” Hurley from Ben and stop him from going with Ben. When it comes down to it, yes, I think Sawyer will end up (probably soon) willingly dying for his friends pretty soon. Sawyer, I think, has definitely developed from total self-centered jerk to hero. That’s one of the great things I love about LOST—the theme of redemption!
6. LOL!!! Just a Star Wars sidenote: The moonlight Ben/Widmore exchange seemed a bit Annakin/Obiwan-ish. Widmore “made him” and Ben turned on him. I’m dying for a Widmore-centric episode!!!!
7. LOL!!! Another Star Wars sidenote: Ben plopping down in the desert: Remniscent of Luke Skywalker on Tatooine. I thought he was about to call out for Uncle Owen and Aunt Veru!
Comment 364, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sector7 “1. If that was the story of how Ben recruited Sayid, what abt what they said in EP3? Ben:”Remember the last time you thought with your heart instead of you gun?” Sayid:”You used that to recruit me into killing for you.” Where was that scene???”
>> If Sayid had thought with his “gun,” he would’ve stopped killing after he shot Ishmael or whatever his name was, or not even killed anybody in the first place. Ya know, not waste his bullets. But he thought with his heart, killed for ben, and then asked to be ben’s hit man (dumb decision). Idk, maybe I’m reading to hard, but this is the episode where he gets recruited by Ben, so I think that’s it…
RGS (c357): yes I know ordering the deaths would make ben a killer, but in his mind he’s not a killer. He’s very adamant about him not being a killer, in his mind he doesn’t have the blood on his hands.
I think Ben went through the closet to get smokey, not recruit Sayid. He wasn’t wearing a parka when he left, as said earlier, and he was recruiting sayid at the beginning of the ep and smokey only came AFTER he went into the bat cave.
Comment 365, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
____
I think my favorite line was when Sayid killed the supposed man who killed Nadia. He shot him – then pumped him full of the rest of his bullets and kept squeezing the trigger after the gun was empty and Ben said, “I think that’ll do it.” It was great!
Comment 366, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost chicka wrote:
He never actually said he was not a killer. We know he is. I think he said he doesn’t kill innocent people. Now the question is who the hell is innocent in Ben’s mind.
Comment 367, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I think we need to reserve final judgement on Ben until all the facts are out. If his overall reason for killing is to ultimately save the entire human race, then that’s understandable, right?
Comment 368, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
I am not quite understanding where you are going with all this “rules” talk. Are you substituting the word rules for fate? The only “rule”, that we know for sure, was that you can’t kill family ( I think it was family). Another thing about rules, from my childhood, is that they are made to be broken.
Comment 369, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
TanziTwo wrote:
TanziTwo wrote:
Tomayto – Tomahto
What does his politically correct business card say.
Ben Linus
“Wholesaler, Harvests Innocence-Challenged Souls At Discount.”
Comment 370, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
IMO, I have never stated that certain characters killing other characters is bad or good. The term “killing” or “killer” is thought of as negative when you see it on a blog. IMO, if you take another life, you are a killer, not necessarily a murderer. JMHO.
Comment 371, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
When on the show did it say that it was a rule that you can’t kill family? That assumed rule was created on this blog.
The story of Lost has rules. I guess another way to put it is that the rules are like main events that have to happen. Ms. Hawking tried to explain this to Des.
Another way the story has rules is in refernce to how time travel works on Lost. In that respect, the writers created the rules that dictate how time travel works. “Rules” means the way things have to be for the story to play out. Widmore changed the rules. When you travel through time on Lost, you can change things that would be considered variables, e.g., how Charlie dies, but there are some things you can’t change. I just thought of another rule: Faraday has to show his rat how to rum through the maze. That can not be a variable because we saw the rat run the maze before it was taught. I know it’s difficult to comprehend…
Comment 372, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Missy wrote:
—————
That was a good one also. I loved it when Ben started walikng away, like that was ALL he wanted Sayid to do.
Comment 373, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
—————-
You are right, they did not state that you can’t kill family. But that was the first time on the show that rules were mentioned. I don’t think anything you have mentioned were ever stated on the show either. LOL. Are you making up your own rules for the show?
Comment 374, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
TanziTwo wrote:
DocH wrote:
———-
I watched it again also. On this show, somethings are never questioned, like Ben and his super-agent skills, were did he learn those? He was like James Bond dressed as Indiana Jones. Maybe the hostiles trained him or Mikhail or someone that has been on the island. I get it. Where did Sawyer learn his military tactics? We have only seen him as a conman. Do they have Call of Duty 4 at the barracks to teach him these tactics?
Comment 375, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote: You are right, they did not state that you can’t kill family. But that was the first time on the show that rules were mentioned. I don’t think anything you have mentioned were ever stated on the show either. LOL. Are you making up your own rules for the show?
__________________
I know I’m really reaching on this. I think that in order to know the “rules”, you have to see the future. I think Ben can see into the future, therefor, he knows the rules. Ms. Hawking knows the rules. I think Charles can see the future so he knows the rules. These people are playing a game in a sense. You can change certain things that are supposed to happen but not some things that they would consider “rules”. Desmond hasn’t learned this yet but I think he will. I think Dan has figured this out.
Comment 376, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
TanziTwo wrote:
———————
FROM Webster’s…KILL – to deprive of life : cause the death of. Kill merely states the fact of death caused by an agency in any manner .
OR in lost terms The smoke killed EKKO, Sawyer killed Cooper, Ben killed the 2 desert dwellers. I don’t undertand the politically correct comment? But I am blonde.
Comment 377, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
One last thing that I have forgotten to mention – Does it sound right that Sayid looked for Nadia for 8 years? Has be been off the island for 8 years? Or is he saying in total since they parted in Iraq that it had been 8 years? Anyone catch that one?
Comment 378, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Okay – seriously last thought from me. The only ice-cold, wintery place we’ve been shown so far is where the other freighter people are – for Penny. COuld Ben have just come from there? Hence the parka and the steam coming off of him?
Comment 379, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Widmore IS Bens constant.
I know Jack is “sick” but Dont you think he is being waaay too passive lately. The “old” jack would have freaked out and threatened Faraday and Lewis with violent means over their coy insincerity. Hes also popping pills a la earlier FFs. “We need to go back Kate”. Are the Jack and Kate we are now seeing “returnees” to the island somehow? Did you see the way she looked at him when she was washing her hands at the beach. Are they each others “constant”
Comment 380, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Missy wrote:
I took that as in total since they parted in Iraq that it had been 8 years.
Comment 381, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Missy wrote:
I think you might be right.
Comment 382, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
—————
That’s a good theory. I think Ben can see in to the future also, just like I thought Locke could in season 1. But I think the island or Jacob, only lets him see certain things.
I just thought, when he said “he changed the rules”, he was actually referring to an old code, as others have stated. Maybe the “rules” are written down in the temple, if there even is one. LOL
Comment 383, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Missy wrote:
You may be right, but I think it has more to do with the actual travel through time/space, then where he came from. Did you notice the new sounding “whoosh” at the beginning of that scene?
Comment 384, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
+_+_+_+_+_+_+
I like it. He goes there. Gets what info he needs about peoples and places then sets out on his mission. So we believe there may have be a altercation in the winter place and thats why Ben is wounded on his right arm.
Comment 385, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
IMO Ben may not have wrongfully taken it. As I recall, DHARMA/Widmore had inhabited the island and were being attacked by “hostiles” while they were there. “Hostiles” MIGHT natives of island and being repressed by the “invaders”. Ben is recruited by the natives to help liberate them…and Widmore’s evil ego won’t let it go because he sees it as Ben took what he took.
Comment 386, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
++++++
True we don’t know anymore that what has been said. But for sure adoption is a euphemism. There is nothing legal about kidnapping a child. I still believe that Ben may be Alex’s bio dad…waiting for more Danielle back story…
Comment 387, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Circus Mom wrote:
IMO Smokey can attack on it’s own. I think the purpose of the scene of Ben going to get him was to hint to us the Ben can make contact and communicate with it AND to let it know that the fence was of…go get the bastards attacking the island. Like any “watch dog”, it may not be omnicient and doesn’t automatically know when and where attackers are.
Comment 388, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Circus Mom wrote:
Absolutely agree, Miles is nothing more (except for the ghost whispering) than a weasel. He didn’t know about Smokey and needs time to rethink his plans.
Comment 389, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
+++++++
IMO innocent people don’t attack the island that orignally belonged to someone else that he is now associated with. Alpert’s group to be specific. They recruited him and have since decided that his interests aren’t what they originally wanted and that’s why they have recruited Locke. Now add Ben’s revenge quest and Locke is now a “lock”. Like the pun?
Comment 390, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Missy wrote:
Yes. I think we kind of touched on it earlier with the Vortices thing. If there is a DHARMA station new a vortice in the Arctic, he may have gone there before he dropped into Tunisia. And it would make sense that Widmore folks, whether Penn’s or Charles’ would have been at that DHARMA station monitoring and waiting for a signal.
Comment 391, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
+++++
Crappy typing. I meant to say “near a vortex” not “new a vortice”
Comment 392, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
When speaking to Keamy, Ben referred to Alex’s mother as an insane woman. We know that Rousseau has said some crazy things. Perhaps everything that we know of her history is all fabrication or hallucination. Perhaps Ben met Rousseau off island and “recruited” her (and maybe the other people she thinks all died) to come to the island. Perhaps Alex WAS conceived off island and Ben IS her father.
Perhaps in coming to the island, Rousseau was the one afflicted with the “sickness” but it manifested itself differently in her than in Desmond or Minkowski. Perhaps everything we have heard of her time on the island is skewed by that sickness.
She did not seem shocked to see Ben. She knows he is her daughter’s “kidnapper” but treats him the same strange way that she treats everyone she encounters.
Perhaps Ben IS Alex’s father. Perhaps he took Alex and went back to New Otherton after Rousseau ran away with the newborn in a hallucinated panic.
We’ve taken Rousseau at her word from day one. Perhaps we will see a flashback which will prove the woman has an altered sense of her past.
Who knows.
: ) P
Comment 393, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
First time poster, long time reader.
Does anyone think its strange that Widmore is going through all of this trouble to find Ben on the island (Keamy and crew) but when Ben drops by the penthouse, he hardly sits up for him? I mean, Widmore’s people are pretty much doing everything in their power to find him on the island (for what exactly?)… Then Widmore has him in person (in his bedroom no less) and he seems more bothered by the visit than anything.
Comment 394, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
What if… Danielle was part of an original (initial) effort by Widmore to reclaim the island. Her ‘expedition’ was out hunting for it… met their fate… sickness… whatever. She was with child when they set off. Maybe her blocking the communications for so many years was really her way off saying – “you can’t reclaim the island… just now”.
Comment 395, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I heart Sawyer wrote:
Alexandra, commonly known as Alex, was the biological daughter of Danielle Rousseau and Robert. She was the adopted daughter of Ben Linus. Alex’s surname is uncertain (either “Rousseau” or “Linus”), although she has been listed in ABC Medianet episode credits as “Alexandra Rousseau”.
Sixteen years before the crash of Flight 815, Danielle and Robert arrived on the Island as part of a science expedition. Danielle was seven months pregnant with Alex when she arrived. According to Rousseau, Alex was taken by the Others a week after her birth. Ben Linus raised Alex among the Others as his daughter, telling her that her mother was dead.
Robert – Rousseau shot him dead.
Comment 396, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
that was from Lostpedia
Comment 397, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
Lostpedia is written by a collection of ordinary people (some of which might be crazy fans *bg*) and is based on (what is thought to be) evidence from on the show.
But all of the information you quoted from Lostpedia was based on what Rousseau told the losties. We have no way of knowing if any of her history is “fact” (as it applies to the show, obviously *g*). If Rousseau lied, then none of it might be true. Same if she hallucinated most of what she “remembers” about her past.
For all we know, she could be covertly working for Ben, for Widmore, or the US Government!
: ) P
Comment 398, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
This is a little off topic, is Penny married?
Comment 399, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Missy wrote:
I was wondering about this too. Also, does anyone remember with Charlotte (from the freighter) flashback- wasn’t she in Tunisia? And didn’t she find a Dharma patch or something there and had a big smile on her face? Is that like a portal or something?
Comment 400, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I should elaborate… I ask that because I wonder where or how her father could hide her?
Comment 401, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
++++++++++
Perhaps “not killing innocent people” is one of the rules, the one Widmore broke. That would probably make Penny innocent too.
Ben, and Widmore, can manipulate people into doing things that “remove their innocence” therfore making them fair game. So, the kids on the plane, Cindy, and whoever else was on “the list” were/are innocent. Ben wants to surround himself with innocents because Widmore can’t kill them. He also had his soldiers, like Tom for protection. Juliette got marked when she “lost her innocence” by killing an other on the beach to free Kate and Sawyer.
The rules seem similar to those used in movies about God, the devil, and angles/fallen angles. Each of them has a set of rules they have to follow and “free will” is usually a major factor in which side everyone ends up on.
I don’t think the rules Ben was referring to have anything to do with the “Not changing the future” “Charlie had to die” concepts. Different kind of rules.
Circus Dork is watching the show now and asked me to post this for her. She commented that she thinks it is VERY important that Ben gave the gun to Sawyer after pulling it out of the piano bench. He pulled it out, looked at Locke, and tossed it to Sawyer. She may be on to something.
Comment 402, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Totally love how the show is making Sawyer give a darn about people.
I am really sick of how whiney-ish and vague Dan is. I’m sorry but if people who had all this bad stuff happen to them they would want some damn answers especially another man of science like Jack. Jack has already be jerked around on the getting to leave the island before with Ben so he would be especially prone to needing to hear some real answers. He is ether to sick/weakened to care or to addicted to the pain killers to care.
I think it’s sooooooooo funny how even when you could be marooned on an island things like Heroin or painkillers or guns (and plenty of them) can find you and test you. Makes for good TV though.
I pretty much got that Widmore and Ben were each others’ constants the moment Ben showed up in his room. It would explain Widmore’s lack of shock, and why Ben says he “can’t” kill Widmore. No one would want their constant dead.
Comment 403, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Kathy wrote:
Good point, that very well might be the reason.
Comment 404, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
“The bald dude” ….uhh, yah mean John Locke…or Bernard?
oh, you mean…the guy with the shaved head in Iraq!
Comment 405, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
++++++++
I might be wrong, but I didn’t think that her transmission was blocking communications. I thought Ben had his folks doing that from The Looking Glass?
Also, in my quest to prove that Danielle was actually somehow in cahoots with the Others, why wouldn’t Ben just turn off the “16 year transmission”? He had total control of the island.
Comment 406, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Watching the episode again… Hurley is all ABOUT caring for Aaron in the episode. Holding him during their game, carrying him around, cradling him as he cries, making a bed in the laundry basket… yet in Ji Yeon, he wouldn’t hold Sun’s baby – I believe he even said something about not wanting to. I wonder what happens to make him feel so differently?
: ) P
Comment 407, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
Aaron most likely peed through the island diaper. 8>P
Comment 408, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
J.Ro. wrote:
I just chalk it up to theatrics. More effective to the viewer if Ben delivers the message in person then by message. It looked like was going to kill Charles, then he drops the “can’t do that” (kill him) bomb to get us wondering why.
BTW, in looking back, Charles wanted his team to get Ben alive. For the same reason that Ben can’t kill Charles?
Comment 409, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Another question: When Ben and Locke are barricading themselves in the house, why did they put SO many things in front of the door, but NOTHING in front of any of the windows?
Also, I expect Ben had his reasons for staying in the living room, but why didn’t Locke or Sawyer suggest they just go down into the basement into one of those “secret” rooms?
And honestly, Claire’s ENTIRE house exploded and was demolished down to the smoldering FRAME and she survives with a few scratches to the head (with only a flimsy piece of fabric covering her)?
: ) P
Comment 410, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
continually transmitting on a frequency EFFECTIVELY jams that frequency, unless someone broadcasting at a higher signal strength gets close enough to override the continual broadcast (check Mike!). Ben may not have even been aware of the freq that Danielles broadcast. Looking Glass comm jam could be for different freqs.
DocH wrote:
Not TOTAL control. Still needed the sonic fence for smoke monster. Did he even know that Danielle was still wandering around out there in her bunker? Des’s boat?
DocH wrote:
Easier to come thru a door than a window. Easier to shoot from a window. Easier to shoot those coming thru windows, as they will incumbered.
DocH wrote:
The ABC show recap says she was in the backyard of the house that blew up, not in it. And that she was covered with laundry.
Comment 411, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
Thanks for the reasoning behind barricading the doors but not the windows – still I would have wanted to put SOMETHING in front of MOST of the windows.
But they want us to believe that Claire heard all those guns shooting and stayed in the back yard to finish hanging the laundry?
: ) P
Comment 412, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Entertainment Weekly’s episode recap. Easier (for me) than reading through all the disjointed comments here :) – I didn’t see any spoilers, but I’m not as sensitive as some here…
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20195369_1,00.html
Comment 413, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Scott wrote:
I like to read other people’s thoughts on the show, even if some are “disjointed”. Isn’t that what this blog is for? But ty for the info.
Comment 414, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I can only take so much of “Is Rousseau Alex’s mother?” “Yes, Ben abducted her!” Etc. But yeah, it’s fun for awhile. Otherwise, I wouldn’t be here, would I?
Comment 415, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
Familiar with the phrase “man (person) of action”? I don’t think I’ve ever seen her run, jump ir even react quickly to anything. Though, she may have chased a sea gull in Par Avion, not sure. She probably stood there like a lump, stunned, uncertain for a bit, then she probably got frantic about where Aaron was, then whumpf! The house goes up.
… the stunner was that when Smokey went racing by Claire, he was sending her the mental message – “The Dingo (Vincent) Ate Your Baby!”. [:^)
Comment 416, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
Comment 417, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
___
Good note. Ben knows they won’t kill him (i.e. why he tells Locke to stay close). Could be proof of a “rule” or an “untouchables” theory?
Comment 418, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
COMMENT 278
Comment 419, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Anyone noticed in the scene with Jack in the beginning, his forearm tatto? I don’t remember it I know Jack has a shoulder tatto, but I don’t recall a tatto in his inner forearm, which is big and on the next scene doesnt show…
Comment 420, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
IMO no woman 7 mos pregant goes on such an expedition. She was prob brought there just as naively as Juliet.
Comment 421, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
Okay, not total control, but it’s still debatable if the Others need protection from Smokey. DHARMA did, but the Others may have just been using for their protection from new comers. (My thought that Ben went to the closet to tell Smokey the fence is off, feel free to attack.) And yes I agree that it’s certainly possilbe that Ben didn’t know Danielle was still around (as you know, I doubt it).
Comment 422, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
I thought it was 6 months, but maybe when her expedition left she did not know she was pregnant OR maybe she wasn’t pregnant when she left OR maybe they did not realize how long it would take them.
I don’t see her as the “sitting aroung the house, gaining 70 lbs, prego”. She seems kind of rugged, old school, hearty, eastern European. If she and her husband are sea-faring folk, maybe being pregnant while living at-sea is not such a big deal. (Some say fresh air & sun for mom, and constant rocking for the baby, are good things).
Comment 423, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
Or (Sorry Scott but when I have a theory I beat the hell out of it until proven right or wrong) her whole story is b.s. and she was in cahoots. :)
Comment 424, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sensei wrote:
Yes, I said something to my kids about not remembering that one, though I quickly forgot about it and didn’t notice is was missing later.
Comment 425, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
—————
Lot of MAYBE’s there. The truth is we the only things we know about Rousseaou is the she was ALex’s biological mother, she’s been on the island for 16 years, she’s french, and possibly insane. I think she is insane because I agree with JamieGirl, but that was the 80’s and pregnant women use to even smoke. Prenatal info has come a long way since the 80’s.
Comment 426, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
On a sidenote. Let’s Go Cavs. Lebron for 50 today.
Comment 427, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
We saw Juliet & Kate race for safety from Smokey to get behind the fence. While I don’t doubt that they kept the fence on to keep out newcomers as well, I doubt they turned it on just because OA815 people were on-island and snooping. I think it was on 24/7/365. Alex, Mikhail, etc… all seem very familiar with the fences capabilities. As for newcomers, our band of Losties breached it easily by climbing up one of the stanchions and dropping over.
Ben summoning Smokey – “feel free to attack”. Why did Smokey race by “Linus – party of six” for the harder to find mercenaries? Smokey isn’t a rampaging elephant or charging lion… it’s a guard/attack dog. I think it ran-down the “greater evil” (not the first target) in the barracks, when Ben let it out of its kennel. And that Ben knew that would be the case.
Comment 428, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
OVER-RATED clap, clap, clap OVER-RATED…Just another B-Ball diva getting special calls. Okay, he’s not over rated, but I hate B-Ball divas. Sadly my Pistons are finished…
To make the post legit…I got nothin’.
Comment 429, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
Beg to differ, because the only things we know about Rousseau are what she has told the losties about her past – none of which HAS to be true. I think it IS likely that she is Alex’s mother. Has she been on the island 16 years? Who knows. That transmission might not even BE hers. Is she French? Again, who knows. Her accent is NOT French. The TRANSMISSION was in French.
And as I said before, if you are leaving a transmission looking for a rescue, and you know more than one language, wouldn’t you leave the transmission in more than one language? Based on her accent, neither French nor English is her first language. That leaves a third language as a possibility.
So IMO, the woman’s story is full of holes.
: ) P
Comment 430, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
++++++++++
Just some rebuttle:
-Smokey confronted Locke and let him go once.
-IMO the Juliette faked the fear when with Kate to keep the secret.(Am I remembering right that Smokey “read” her as well and let he go?)
-Sometimes the fence was on “stun” per Mikhail and IMO the fence hasn’t been on since Ben had his folks abandon camp. Alex only entered the panic code and didn’t actually turn the fence off.
Weak, I know, but it’s all I got to keep my opinion going.
Comment 431, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Then Scott, the rest of us come and beat the theory to death, drag off the carcass and hide it… hoping to throw it back in his face one day… that’s the ‘circle of life here’ – nothing personal. [:^)
DocH wrote:
Comment 432, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
—————
So we know nothing about her, even better.
Comment 433, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
++++++++
Exactly. I always show up to admit when I’m wrong(too many to list) and gloat when I’m correct (Aaron an O6er, most recently). I just have a hard time accepting things at face value that don’t make sense to me. It just so happens that even though it’s TV, her story just doesn’t make sense to me.
Comment 434, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Yeah… but in a week or so, WE are gonna have Stars/Wings! Let’s just hope that if they play on Thursday, they are done before LOST.
DocH wrote:
I don’t think any rebuttal is required. I agree with OR understand all of your points. I mentioned the panic code thing too, because as I remember it, a podcast said that they shot, then cut the scene were they explained that the fence was down since Mikhail fried (I think).
Juliet Quote in LEFT BEHIND – “We don’t know what it is, but we know that it doesn’t like our fences.”
Who knows? Maybe Smokey has had a ‘face-to-face’ before with all of the Others, to include Ben, Alpert, Juliet, etc… then just needs to look again to recognize you as a friend or foe. If Smokey has never seen you before, like with Locke, then you have to be assessed to see if their is something “of the island” in you. Locke was okay initially because Smokey saw that the island gave Locke his legs back. When Locke was preparing to blow up the hatch at the Swan, Smokey attacked him because exposing the secrets of the Swan would ultimately take from the island (its protective E-M shield).
Comment 435, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
sector7 wrote:
The end justifies the means? Thinking that would make him evil. (IMO)
Comment 436, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
+++++++++
Cool. The best debates make you rethink your own points. And you def. make me do that.
I am a big Wings fan, and I anxiously await a Wings/Stars match up. But I am a long time idiot Pistons fan. Even have a logo tattooed on my calf (I know…don’t bother). So very angry about the lack of passion the boys are playing with and also anxiously awaiting a Dumars rebuild.
Comment 437, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Don’t watch ABC promos. Stupid basketball on ABC. What did we learn about smokey last week? Ben can summon it?
Comment 438, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
ALL of their stories have been full of holes until we have learned them in their FB.
Comment 439, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
I believe that is what they want us to think(and I have fallen for it). Jury is def. out.
Comment 440, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
According to Ben, Charles Widemore had Nadia murdered. Sayid then murders the supposed assasin of Nadia, and asks Ben “who’s next?”. Maybe the next person on the hit list is Penny, HOWEVER, Penny is already dead, hence why Widemore is drinking scotch, having nightmares and tells Ben that he will never find her.
Can someone clarify the sequence of the flash forwards. They are not in chronological order, right?
Comment 441, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
————-
The individual show sequence is in chronological order. For instance, last week’s episode, started with Ben in the Sahara Desert and ended with him in London. Everything in between happened in chronological order. The overall shows, starting with Jack’s FF last year, then Hurley’s, Sayid’s etc. have not been in chrono. order.
Comment 442, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
so it is possible, that Penny dies (in some way which Ben is not aware of (yet), and not by Sayid the assasin) after Nadia but before Alex.
Comment 443, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
Very possible. Excellent thought. We saw Sayid chasing the ECONOMIST (Still not sold it was Widmore), maybe that was Penny, or like you said maybe Penny is dead already.
Comment 444, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
I would think it is possible that she dies by other means, but not before Alex. Desmond talked to her from the boat within island days of Alex’s murder. Ben is at Widmore’s place sometime after Oct. 2005. With Ben’s resources, he would know if she’s been dead for a year(ish).
Comment 445, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Or did you mean to say BEFORE Nadia, but AFTER Alex?
Comment 446, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
Well, no, not in my opinion.
Alex dies on the island in late 2004 (island time, whatever that is) WHILE Sayid is on the freighter.
Nadia dies in October 2005.
Penny MAY well be dead before October 2005, but not before Alex died. So Penny may die AFTER Alex and BEFORE Nadia, but not the other way around.
: ) P
Comment 447, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Just as he would have known that the insane mother, whose baby he stole, was still on the island.
Where did he get his info from? Patchy?
Comment 448, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
PJSander wrote:
I assume that Jamiegirl meant that. She got her names crossed is all.
Comment 449, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
I didn’t mean to say Before Nadia, but that makes the most sense.
Comment 450, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
++++++
Okay, then I’m with PJ, not possible IMO either.
Comment 451, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
++++++++
Well, based on my ongoing theory, he wouldn’t get the info from anyone. He has the info about Danielle still being on the island by the “fact” that he and Danielle are in cahoots.
(Scott is likley spitting at his monitor ;)
Comment 452, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Is Penny “The Economist” that Ben / Sayid are searching for, unaware that she is already dead (I’m speculating on her death).
Comment 453, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
From what I remember (okay – interpret) about the podcasts… the FFs are moving backwards toward the island as they occur. So Jack was furthest in the future, then Hurley, Sayid, Kate/Aaron and then Sun. We just FF’d Ben, which would make it the closest to island time in late Oct 05 (Tunisia)… which is less than a year. Last we heard, on island time was Dec 04, but may be early Jan 05 by now. They did say once we start watching an episode (FB or FF), it was chronological. So Ben was in Tunisia, then made it to Iraq (Oct/Nov 05) then to Widmore Nov/Dec 05 (or later). Alex’s murder would be about 11 months (or more) before Ben ever threatened Penelopes’ fate to Widmore.
As for FBs’, they were never presented in any order, but once they started the narrative, in that particular episode, they were chronological, I humbly submit.
Comment 454, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
I don’t think so. If I remember correctly, the person Elsa refered to as an economist was male. Which I admit may have been a rouse, but that would then be assuming that Penny knew Sayid was her potential assasin.
As a mentioned in an earlier comment, I think that Penny is the new name that Ben will be giving to Sayid at the end of the same episode. When we find out that Ben is Sayid’s boss when they meet at the vet hospital to attend to Sayid’s gunshot wound.
Comment 455, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
I’ll second that, as we are supposedly working towards on island and off island being simultaneous.
Comment 456, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer or DocH can you please put these in chronological order? Also, for arguments sake, let’s assume Penelope Widemore is dead.
Penny
Nadia, murdered by Ismael Bakir (supposedly)
Ismael Bakir (Nadia’s supposed asassin according to Ben
Elsa, shot by Sayid
Mr. Avellino, shot by Sayid
Alex, shot by Keamy
Person in casket (who I think is Michael under the alias Kevin Johnson), murdered by unknown
Comment 457, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Bobbi wrote:
Yeah I think that was part of the new pieces of information that we learned about the smoke monster. It seems that Ben can summon it, and it seems like it has some kind of relation to a subway train (electrical lights, horn sound, chains clinking), so maybe Ben was covered with soot because he had to feed it some kinda of coal-ish product?
SRTR4K.
Comment 458, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
Here’s my stab :
Alex
Penny – because you say so
Nadia
Ismael
Avellino
Elsa
Casket dweller
Comment 459, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Wow, I’ll give it to you, you aren’t hedging your bet that Ben would give Sayid such an assignment in the least. I submit that if Ben has those kind of stones, the show will have officially JTS.
In keeping consistent with the point Sector made about the missing recruitment scene, I am now believing that the significance of the next name on the list was nothing more than theatrics.
Comment 460, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
I remember a specific reference to the Economist as male too. (And I am not predetermined to associate gender with profession). Can’t research it just now as the puck drops in 5 minutes. Back in three hours.
Comment 461, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
I see you wow and raise you…
Why is it so far fetched that Ben would use his OBVIOUS assasin to complete his STATED mission of killing Penny. Charles used an assasin to kill Alex. What is this difference, what makes you think that Ben would not do such a thing? I truley don’t understand why it’s not possible and why the show would be ruined by him doing this.
Double wow.
Comment 462, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Circus Mom wrote:
____________________
Wow – Great point. I really like that idea. It would make sense as to why Ben would want Locke to kill his dad. Then try to shoot Locke AFTER it has appeared that he has killed his dad. It would take away his innocence, making him fair game to kill, say when Ben shoot him and leaves him in a ditch. Alpert would know this and would suggest Sawyer to do the deed, since I think he’s wanting Locke to be in charge.
Comment 463, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
Would you please remind me where to find this comment. I can’t seem to locate it.
Comment 464, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Sensei wrote:
____
I did notice that. I figured that I must have missed it. I’ll have to back and watch some past shows to see if its there. I do recall reading somewhere that they are all really the actor’s tatoos?? Maybe Mathew got a new one? ( :
Comment 465, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
See I thought that Alex was killed in retaliation for Ben killing Penny (but she was under an assumed name / the Economist) so Ben doesn’t know that Penny is dead, and is still searching for her. Charles knows she is dead, which is why he is drinking, having nightmares and tells Ben he will never find her.
Comment 466, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
___
I agree with the Danielle skepticism. I’m sad that she’s dead – I hope we still get a background story on her. Does anyone else feel that she got a lot less crazy when she started hanging out with our losties? When she first had Sayid she was nuts. She was also certifiable when she tried to take Aaron. But over the last season or so – she’s really come across as being more scrappy and resourceful than loopy.
Ever since the scene where she has Ben in a net, I’ve been suspicious of her. Even though she WAS telling the losties that he will lie, etc. I felt like she was being forced to go along with a plan. What that plan is, or why – I have no idea. I’m sure he was using Alex as a “pawn and nothing more.”
Comment 467, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
No disrespect, but I don’t see how you would think that Alex was killed in retaliation of Ben killing Penny. Ben actually told Charles that he was going to kill Penny because Charles killed Alex. It’s the exact opposite of what you are saying.
Comment 468, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
DocH wrote:
_____
You would think that they would have wanted to remain inside while smokey took care of business. But, instead, Ben says hey everybody we have to run outside. Why would they have to run OUT of the house? Or was it just to get a head start on running for the hills from whomever smokey didn’t eat? But they all just kinda stared at it for awhile. And BTW – what the heck kind of a roar does smokey have – it makes me shudder to make very core.
Comment 469, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
So there is no chance that Ben went back in time and told Charles that? Ok JamieGirl, time to go to sleep. You’re right. All this LOST talk has made me crazy. You’re all fascinating me though, as is the show, thought the interpretations are equally fascinating. I have quit most of my other shows… General Hospital (13 yrs), The Hills, Grey’s Anatomy… nothing compares nor do the blogs!
Comment 470, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^
Charles used an assasin to kill Alex, but I don’t think in any way Keamy knew Alex, or was friends with, or at a minimum allied with, someone who cared deeply for Alex. It be like someone asking you to off Dumars.
Maybe if Sayid had no clue who Penny was, then I could start to buy it. For Ben to give him Penny’s name would be similar to telling him to kill Kate’s mom, or even Walt, or if he had spent significant time with Juliet to kill her sister. I mean Sayid was right there when Des was going through that phone conversation, the emotion etc.
Comment 471, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
JamieGirl wrote:
Your okay Danie-…I mean JamieGirl. :)
No, I’m pretty sure that they said they would never mix FFs and FBs in one episode for the same character for this very reason(confusing folks).
Comment 472, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
^^^^^^
305
Comment 473, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
————-
I beg to differ. How long was Ji Yeon in the womb? Sun’s FF had to occur before Ben’s.
Comment 474, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
+++++++
I see your point. But I am considering everything. Including the manipulation ability of Ben. Sayid was ready to kill (dare I say anyone) when he found out that Nadia was murdered by Widmore. Beef up the story a little bit, and sick the bull dog.
BTW, if Dumars father killed my wife over some stupid island…GM of Detroit Pistons needed. LOL.
Comment 475, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
Thanks.
Comment 476, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
I’d have to research, but did they say how old Ji Yeon was during the scene with Hugo in the FF? There could be overlapping time in the FFs and still be started in chronological order.
Comment 477, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Ji Yeon was born in that episode. So, if Jin died on 9-22-04, that is their story ( no debating that). Whether he survived the crash or not, the last possible day of conception would be 9-22-04. ADD approx. 9 months 6-22-05.
UNLESS, Sun’s story is Jin is not the father. Then the conception date could be later.
Comment 478, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
I’m just absolutley racking my brain about Ben’s comment about not being able to kill Charles. I need to call my LAA sponsor.
Whoo hoo, Pistons tie up the series, going to all the way to the Championship! Sound like an idiot fan?
Comment 479, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
Who is to say Penny’s name is still Penny’s name? Maybe Abbadon is the economist.
Comment 480, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
++++++++
I have to research the podcasts to try to verify either way. Your points are good.
Comment 481, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
^^^^^^^^^
So you can see what kinda stones it would take. Ben has already lead you to the trigger man of your wife. Then he leads you to some other powerful Widmore allies for you to kill. Then, despite looking at your Piston tattoo, tells you I have reason to believe Joe Dumars is also connected.
Then in the silence that would grip you, as Ben stares at you with those bugged out eyes, you would sit back down on the med. bench and start rubbing your tattoo, uttering, “noooo, it’s not possible…not Joe, not Duuuumaaaarrrrs! You’re mad Benjamin! Mad I say!” Then you would storm off.
Comment 482, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
You are forgetting that Ben is a “do anything” guy. He has the stones (especially as a TV character). AND you forgot, in your script where Ben produces some documentation that “proves” my beloved Dumars was involved. Instead of storming out. I run to the tattoo shop and get the red circle with diagnal line…common that’s funny and you know it….
Comment 483, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
BTW, you are gonna have an absolute field day when I’m proven wrong on this. :)
Comment 484, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
^^^^^^^
That’s true too, Ben could give Sayid the Penny alias, but Sayid would have still seen the picture of Penny, (not that he would absolutely remember what she looked like, but then again, he might have put her image in his mental roledex because he’s thinkin, “this chick better be all that to save Desmond’s life just by talking to him over the phone.”)
I like Abaddon as the Economist because I’m not sure how many characters they’re going to keep introducing.
Comment 485, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Sayid killing Penny = Isaih killing Mrs. Dumars. I dont see it……maybe Rodman.
Comment 486, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
++++++++++
You’re no Piston fan. Adrian Dantley would be the believable one. LOL
Comment 487, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
Told you before, C-town baby. Lebron will tear you guys up again, if you make it that far.
I only mentioned Abbadon because i went to lostpedia, trying to figure out the scene in comment 305. Maybe Abaddon is like BILL in “Kill Bill”, he has female assassins as his top associates, Elsa and Naomi. They were both wearing similar bracelets. Did anyone ever figure out who R.G. was on Naomi’s bracelet?
Still working on that “last time you followed your heart instead of your gun?”. I am stumped.
Comment 488, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
RGS wrote:
—————-
I thought that odd also. Why not just stay inside until smokey was gone, or hide in Ben’s secret room or the secret room in the secret room ( Whose Dharma house WAS that)? They actually only showed one guy being attacked also. How many were there?
Comment 489, posted 1 year, 10 months ago - Quote and reply
Missy wrote:
Ben killed his own father.
Comment 490, posted 1 year, 10 months ago -