Okay, I’m convinced now more than ever that Locke’s dad is the guy Sawyer is looking for. I’m guessing Locke’s dad is the man from Tallahassee, and I’m now wondering what significance that could have.

Love the imagery of Locke opening another “hatch” when he boarded the sub.

Ben is manipulating everyone, so did the island really heal Locke and bring his dad there or is it all part of Ben’s elaborate plot? Can’t wait for next week!

They showed a guy twice in this episode that I thought was Micheal. I didn’t record it but did anyone put it in slow motion to see? One charged at Kate. The other was the one that Ben told to get the guy from Tallahassee. I might be off here.

The first shall be last and the last first. Locke, I’d say, has been “last” for a long time, even though he has a good heart.

Is it too early to crow about Alex’s paternity?

I’m not sure what you’re getting at - I think we knew Ben was Alex’s “father”, but some people claim that he’s her biological father. I think he’s simply her adopted father, as many here have stated - they stole her from Rousseau and he raised her.

carebare wrote:

so, does anyone think that we (and locke) could be just seeing another manifestation of the smoke monster? i mean, it kind of seems to show whatever they’re thinking about or want the most (eko and his brother, hurley and dave, jack and christian)

That’s what I was trying to figure out. At first I thought it was just a vision due to Smokey, and Ben controls Smokey and this box is where it is kept. But after thinking about it a little more, I believe Locke’s dad is really there, and he is “the Man from Tallahassee”. Remember, Ben told “Richard” to get “the Man from Tallahasse”, and Richard is the guy who recruited Juliet, and ends up unlocking the door where Locke’s dad is kept. So this is part of Ben’s manipulation of John, but for what purpose? And when exactly did they capture him and bring him to the island? Before the crash? After Ben escaped from the Losties and had learned more about Locke? Did Ben know Locke would come to the Others’ camp, so he was keeping his dad there for whenever the occasion arose? Does this tie into Ben’s original trip to the Losties’ part of the island? As usual, a few questions were answered, but many more were raised. Great stuff!

That episode was *perfect*! It had a little bit of everything that I’ve come to love about Lost.

Terry O’Quinn is extremely talented; this episode really displayed his range of acting skills.

I’m in agreement that The Man From Tallahassee is Locke’s dad, and connecting him to the man Sawyer has been searching for makes great sense. I like that theory a lot; it adds another character connection.
I briefly considered that perhaps it wasn’t actually his dad, that it was an apparition, but I think it’s much more dramatic and meaningful for the show to make it the actual person.

There was a lot of important information about the island that was divulged, I can’t wait to watch it again and dig into the dialog.

I think the men who were gaurding Jack’s house are somehow involved with piloting the submarine, they were the ones walking Jack and Juliet there when they caught Locke. They appeared to be very “military”…

Sayid spilling the beans to Alex about her mom was another brilliantly acted scene. Sometimes Sayid suffers from a bit of over-acting, but tonight was spot-on.

Lost is on a major upswing since it’s return from the break and this season is shaping up to be the best one yet, - if they can keep producing qualitty episodes like the past 5 or so.

Anyway, I’m done talking, I’m looking forward to reading the comments that should start pouring in soon.

Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.

Yeah, that really bugged me. It’s a major flaw in the story/plot, but I’ll let it slide because the rest of the episode was perfect.

I also agree that Locke’s dad is probably TMFT. I’m wondering, though, if he’s been living on the island for a while, unaware of the Others. He could’ve gotten there somehow shortly after knocking Locke out of the window (the cops did say he’d disappeared, after all). He just looked terrified, and a little beat up, when they opened that door (which, by the way, I totally called before it happened, but still enjoyed the reveal). This makes me think that he’s been living, watched by the Others, and when Ben said to “get” him, some people went to capture him and bring him in.

I hadn’t thought about the barracks being in the middle of nowhere with a random submarine dock right there. That is, um, odd, but I wouldn’t call it a MAJOR flaw in the plot. Just a continuity error. YMMV.

Didn’t Locke’s dad work for Hanso or something at one time?? Or was that from the Lost experience?

I recall a website (maybe it was www.hansocareers.com ?) that was deemed a hoax that included a picture of Lockes dad on “the board of directors.” This was all during the end of Season 2/the beginning of The Lost Experience

Tasha wrote:

Didn’t Locke’s dad work for Hanso or something at one time?? Or was that from the Lost experience?

I recall a website (maybe it was www.hansocareers.com ?) that was deemed a hoax that included a picture of Lockes dad on “the board of directors.” This was all during the end of Season 2/the beginning of The Lost Experience

Drrr…or maybe I’m thinking about Penny’s father.

Mikhail mentioned a powerful guy who was the boss, apparently over Ben, when he was talking about the list and their flaws, etc. Anyone think Locke’s dad could be the guy in charge of the island.

This is a good idea, but I don’t think Locke’s dad is the Big Boss. It seems like whatever’s been going on there has been going on longer than Locke’s dad would’ve been there. I could be wrong about that, but with Ben having lived there his whole life and all of that, that seems to put a crimp in the timeline. Of course, what is time to the folks on Lost, anyway?

But aside from that, I’m not sure that the Big Boss would come running whenever Ben wanted him, anyway. I’m guessing the Big Boss, whoever he is, might actually have a pretty big bone to pick with Ben. Remember when Jack first started doing the surgery on Ben? Tom or Danny (I forget which) mumbled something about Jack not being on Jacob’s list at all. If Ben made his own list to serve his own purposes and didn’t do what the Big Boss wanted, I think he might be in some trouble.

I could be way off with all of this, but I’m just thinking out loud here.

Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.

There’s an underwater passage that leads to a lake in the middle of the island. Either that or the island subway system that’s alluded to in Sayid’s map.

thedude wrote:

Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.

There’s an underwater passage that leads to a lake in the middle of the island. Either that or the island subway system that’s alluded to in Sayid’s map.

Not the latter. Alex and John walk through the jungle to the dock. Not necessary to use any subway.

“Lost” is a remake of the 1940’s Frank Capra film, “Lost Horizon” as you can see even the name is similar. The film is also about a plane crash and a secluded civilization. The island serves as a shangri-la for the inhabitants. I strongly suggest you go find this movie and you will know how lost ends and what it is all about. or i could tell you. Locke will leave the island and be crippled again. Jack will also try to leave but he sees that he doesn’t belong in the real world and attempts to return to the island and eventually find it after seven years. It teaches a lesson to find a place where you are trully happy. another spoiler is that, have you notice nobody has needed a haircut? thats because everybody has a lifespan of 200 years and dont really change. Its all based on the movie “Lost Horizon”. I just thought I might share this with the world.

Thanks for the tip! Sounds VERY interesting!!

Overall this was a GREAT episode!!!

On a more serious note, I think is pretty clear that he is NOT the man from Talahasse, because if you watch carefully, when Ben says to summon him, the person he is talking to is Batmanoel ^^ (pay attention to the voice and dark hair).

I know this is not really relevant to the story, but I was wondering if I’m the only one giggling whenever the guy from Mittelos appear on screen (he is Batmanoel, from The Tick :P)…

On a more serious note, I think is pretty clear that he is NOT the man from Talahasse, because if you watch carefully, when Ben says to summon him, the person he is talking to is Batmanoel ^^ (pay attention to the voice and dark hair).

No, you’re not the only one. I loved the live-action Tick (have it on DVD) and that was the first thing I said when I saw Nestor Carbonnel’s name in the credits during Juliette’s flashback eppy — “Hey, it’s Batmanuel!” BTW - I’m pretty sure he was in the room with Tom and Ben when Locke was in the closet — I’m pretty sure it’s the Mittelos guy (Batmanuel!) who Ben asks to go get The Man from Tallehassee, which I can only assume is Locke’s father.

In my view “The Man from Tallahassee” is Locke’s “father”, and most probably also the real Sawyer.

Cool to see Richard Alpert on the island. When I see him I think of Nestor’s role as the photographer in “Suddenly Susan” haha =)

And why if the button had such a major importance to all forms of communication, and transportation on the island, would the others have allowed Dharma and the Losties to cotrol that station?

Lastly, if the anomoly wiped out everythong around the island, anyone else think Michael and Walt are out there floating around in circles?

Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.

Take a look at the map. I have a feeling that that subterranean passage in the upper left could be how the sub gains access to the barracks. There’s plenty of room there for a small body of water.

Map:
humpys.net/view_pic.php?id=324...

…And why if the button had such a major importance to all forms of communication, and transportation on the island, would the others have allowed Dharma and the Losties to cotrol that station?…

That’s an interesting question/point.
I have no idea why they would continue to let Desmond, and then the losties, continue to control that station. It’s possible that not even they knew what would happen if the button didn’t get pushed.

Pushing the button…man, that seems like AGES ago!

I think we’re beginning to see that the Others/Hostiles don’t know everything about the island.

…Take a look at the map. I have a feeling that that subterranean passage in the upper left could be how the sub gains access to the barracks. There’s plenty of room there for a small body of water.

Map:
humpys.net/view_pic.php?id=324...

I think all this talk of moving the sub inland through an underwater tunnel is just rediculous. That was a real, large, submarine. You’d need an underwater tunnel at least 75 feet square…and dead straight…to move a sub that large.

Using a tunnel to travel by foot or subway to the shoreline makes far more sense.

I’m conflicted on the sub, too. Ben said the sub “maintained the illusion” of people being able to leave whenever they wanted–so could it really get home at all? And if it really could get home, but Ben didn’t mind it getting blown up, I guess they are done recruiting people.

What is the story with Jack’s new tattoo? I am assuming it must serve some level of importance.

If you are referring to the one inside his arm w/ stars, this was proven to not be a “new” tattoo. It is visible in the first season, just not as much as his more well known tattoo.

My guess is that the smoke monster, or even the island, is “the box” and is able to manifest anything people want to see.

1. It is obvious that there are/were several groups of people occupying the island at different intervals for varied periods of time. The Others don’t know everything about the Dharma projects on the island (i.e. the Swan Station project of button pushing to avert world implosion).

2. TMFT is Anthony Cooper, Locke’s biological father, and very likely the man Sawyer has been searching for most of his adult life. However, it is vitually impossible for Anthony Cooper to also be the infamous “Jacob”. It doesn’t fit with the mythology. If the Others are whacked out reliogcentric moralists, then is logically impossble for a man as immoral as Anthony Cooper to be their leader.

To be honest, I’m not even convinced that “Jacob” is a real person. Perhaps he is like the Wizard in Oz, a manifestation of an idea used to control the Others. Perhaps “Jacob” is some Ben conjured up to sustain his power over the Others.

It was heartbreaking to see the depth of the wickedness John suffered at the hands of his own father. No wonder he has latched on so deeply to the mysticism of the island and its apparent healing powers.

I predict several more showdowns between Ben & John, perhaps even a confrontation over who has more “rights” to the island’s mysteries. My gues is Ben, though born on the island cannot tap into the central mystery of the island like John can.

A+ for including a Brief History of Time in this episode. I heart Stephen Hawking.

i think idgetlsot is probably on the right page. I think the mittelos guy is “the man for Tallahassee.” And ben’s comfort with him, seems unlike the way ben has acted around anyone else. Im thinking this guy is not only “the man from tallahassee,” but also maybe “jacob.” what do you guys think?

I did not want to say it outloud but I had the same thought. Maybe he is the man from Tallahassee and “Jacob”.

I want to know why/how Locke’s dad is there? If he got there by the sub, why was he there. Or do the others have the ability to pull someone out of the real world whenever they want?

That is a seriously good question. Especially because it looks like everyone else that is on the island got there by “accident” (losties, rousseau, desmond) Why Jack hasn’t asked Juliet how she actually got on the island is bugging the crap out of me.

I think that the reason Dharma supply drops still take place is that Dharma doesn’t know about the purge. The Hostile’s were members of Dharma and have kept the power shift a secret. Alpert is the only one to ever have face to face meetings with Dharma, and he is on the side of the Hostiles. Now with the sub gone, Alpert will be out of touch with Dharma and they will send a team to investigate.

Wasn’t Juliette a fertitlity specialist of sorts? I am beginning to believe the Others were/are infertile; that may be why they kidnapped the children. Why Alex may not be “related” to Ben…Anyone have any thoughts on that?

i know the producers are big comic book geeks and this theory reminds me of loki’s gift in the “x-men in asgard” run. they become whole people (ie: cyclops can control his power w/o hi visor). the price is that they lose there ability to create. the x-men end up refusing the gift and things return to normal. perhaps there is a price the island demands. short stretch from creativity to procreativity. locke already said as much referring to boone.

As far as the location of the sub, i’ll give literary license to the writers since they can’t show every step of the journey that Jack/Julia/Locke/Alex took to walk there. Maybe there’s a gate or passage. Maybe it was several miles. Who cares?

I loved this episode ! Locke’s not the doofus we all thought. More answers and more mysteries.

Awesome!

Ben knew, when Locke was in the closet with “his” daughter, how the episode would turn out, with the submarine and C4, and one way or another called for them to get Locke’s “dad” prepared (whether it is really him or a trick).

Ben knew it ahead of time. He can read Locke’s behavior, and perhaps the future, but despite the reams of info he has on Locke, he doesn’t know what’s deep inside him, the connection to the island — which Locke doesn’t really know either but he speaks as if he does.

And of course Ben knew the promise to let the rescue party go was a hollow promise. He’s still manipulative.

But Ben was born on the island, and he’s 40-50, no? Dharma had arrived in 1980, so he was probably a teenager (if he aged appropriately) or older. Where did he live before that? What did they eat? Since now they live in Dharma housing, and eat Dharma food… and rely on plane crashes or boat crashes to get children…

And who is the “great man” above Ben?

Locke’s dad *is* certainly the man Sawyer has been looking for. But don’t forget that Jack saw HIS dad on the island very early on. So it could easily be an illusion, but is probably not.

Is there any way for Jack and Kate to know that they are half-siblings? Will they be ignorant of this the whole series?!? ;)

How they manage to maintain this level of quality in so many elements after such a large amount of time is astounding. This season is really delivering. It feels at the moment like we are around the season finale - there is that much going on.

I wonder how much longer they can maintain this level of production? Surely we will have to endure at least a few slower episodes, allowing the tension to build back up again for the Season 3 finale? Or maybe not? Maybe they have enough material to keep going now at this intensity all the way? :D

Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.

I believe the blast door map shows that the others are using barracks from the Dharma In. Which I believe are at the far northeastern corner of the Island. That would mean that the sonic fence would be a semi cirle providing protection from hostiles (the others who took it over)on land based routes to the barracks while the sea in a natural barrier to the north and would allow easier access for sub and the boats brought all of the equipment to the island. I am confused about the illusion that Ben spoke of, I don’t believe anyone can leave, and we will see walt and micheal in later episode

I got really excited when Sayed said something to Alex about her mom - our previous experience with Losties clearly show that they are not too fond of sharing information. Alex, thought didn’t seem too surprised or conflicted.

love, love, love, this show (esp. the last 5 eps)

Is there any way for Jack and Kate to know that they are half-siblings? Will they be ignorant of this the whole series?!? ;)

Kate and Jack aren’t related, so far as anyone can tell so far.

Claire & Jack are hald siblings however. I’m not certain how they’ll find out though since Claire told Christian she never wanted to know his name. I guess if she and Jack happened upon a conversation about their dads and they pieced it all together, they’re smart enough to connect the dots, but I really doubt they’d just put it together otherwise.

Did anyone notice John’s tv dinner tray in his flashback? I can’t go back, but I’m pretty sure there were symbols similar to the ones on the timer in the button hatch.

Next, someone mentioned Jacob not necessarily being a man, but more like “wizard of oz”–maybe Jacob is Smokey?

Can someone remind me about “the guy Sawyer has been searching for?” -I guess I forgot the backstory entirely…