The Good Ones
2 years, 6 months ago by AndreasRead more: Ben, Dharma, Episode Thoughts, Locke, The Hanso Foundation
In the Lost episode “Two for the Road”, The Other formerly known as Henry Gale decided to speak, twice. When he attacked Ana-Lucia he said:
“You killed two of us, good people who where leaving you alone. You’re the killer Ana-Lucia”
And when Locke asked him why Henry tried to hurt Ana-Lucia but not him, Henry replied:
“Because you’re one of the good ones John… …none of this matters, I’m dead anyway. The doctor’s gone to make a trade and we both know he’ll come back empty-handed, and then.. I’ve lost my value. So either Jack comes back here and kills me or my people find out where I’m being held and they do it.”
To which Locke replied “Why would your own people wanna kill you” and Henry answered:
“Because the man in charge.. he is a great man John, a brilliant man. But he is not a forgiving man. He will kill me because I failed John. I’ve failed my mission… …When that woman caught me in her trap, I was on my way here John, I was coming for you!”
Then Jack and Kate came running into the hatch with Michael and Locke had to go, but damn if he wasn’t very intrigued by what Henry just told him, and of course - so are we.
Who is this brilliant man Henry is talking about?
An educated guess would be either Gerald DeGroot, the co-founder of The Dharma Initiative or maybe Alvar Hanso, the mysterious man behind The Hanso Foundation which sponsors Dharma financially. Either way, both of them appear to be closely connected.
The other question are who these “good people” are and what makes them good. For some reason I believe Henry when he is talking about good people and I think the good people are simply good, as in not evil. This also points back to the theories on Goodwin simply meaning “Good one”.
From what I understand, The Hanso Foundation wants to create a better society trough their various projects and because of this, the good people are probably persons who would “fit” in this perfect society. Then there is of course the questions of morality when it comes to selecting people who are good or bad. What gives anyone the right to make that kind of choice and why would anyone need to make that choice?
If you look at the new Hanso Foundation website, you will find that they have a project called “Mathematical Forecasting Initiative”. This project predicts the twists and turns of humanities story and tries to help the world adapt to the future. For example - “How can the human race adapt to help the planet support our growing numbers?”.
What if The Hanso Foundation has discovered that the world will come to an end unless there is a radical change? Maybe they are choosing “good people” who will be allowed to live in their Island utopia.
What are your thoughts on the good/bad people thing?
Comment 1, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
I posted this on the “Two for the Road” thread but it fits in here as well.
Henry relates Goodwin’s thoughts to Ana. Goodwin felt that Ana was bad, but could be made to be good. Henry says Goodwin turned out to be wrong. Andreas, if you could get the actual dialogue from that scene that would be great. But anyway, I was left with the idea that this would mean Ana arrived on the island as a bad person, with potential to goodness.
In the flashback it seemed to me that Ana made some kind of reconciling with herself, which would seem to put here in the good category if we are to take the word literally.
Now Henry comes for Locke ’cause he is good. Now don’t get me wrong, Locke is one of my favs, but he has weaknesses that are very easy to exploit.
The combo of Goodwin’s thoughts on Ana and Henry’s thoughts on Locke have led me away from a moral/ethical interpretation of the word good and towards a utilitarian meaning, from the Others point of view. Good serves a purpose and bad does not. Perhaps in the Others world, there is simply useful and not useful. There is no good or bad in a moral sense. The moral meaning is the missing piece that the Losties have brought to the island.
Comment 2, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
This is the dialogue between Ana and Henry at the end when she was about to execute him.
You have some very interesting points Jimseas, but something in Henry’s words convinces me that the good people are not just good for a utilitarian purpose.
Henry says that Goodwin felt that Ana was “worthy”. To me, this indicates that her personality somehow passes a “test” and is worthy of being let in to the club so to speak. Whatever this might mean on the island.
Comment 3, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
This brings up the subject of our societies moralistic view of what “good†is. Obviously there are certain actions that are “badâ€, i.e. murder or intentionally causing harm, but at what point do we allow the popular opinion to dictate good and evil. If you’re of the right-wing, conservative viewpoint then people who live “alternative†lifestyles are evil; if you’re of the left-wing, liberal view then it could be said that the right-wingers are of lower moral fiber.
This brings me to the Hanso Foundation/ Dharma Initiative- the Others consider themselves “good†and are casting judgment on who of the crash survivors are good as well….does this make them evil?
MATTHEW 7:1
“Judge not, that ye be not judged.â€
I’m rambling now…
Comment 4, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Im pissed that ana lucia was killed off the show/island. I felt she would be strong one to help jack take on the others.. It weird how she was jacks (dads) bodyguard b4 he (jacks dad) died. And sawyer ran intot hem in the parking lot of probably the last bar jacks dad drank in. All of these people tie into one another and pass through each others lives with out them knowning it, how smart this story is. Its like the movie CRASH, peoples lives intertwine all the time and sometimes they CRASH into each other.I just wish we knew why these people all seem to be in relation to each other lives. or maybie im not getting it yet?? hmmmm
Comment 5, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
sawyerseviltwin, I don’t think you are rambling at all. The question of if popular opinion should dictate what is good or bad is very interesting. I once read a quote that said “democracy is when two wolves and a sheep decide what’s for dinner”. I guess the big question is, if a majority is for something, does that make it moraly right even if others are against it?
Comment 6, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
This reply is actually not about the good people… but I found that your comment about “Mathematical Forecasting Initiative†is interesting. The fictional writer of “Bad Twin”, Gary Troup, who was supposedly in the Oceaning flight was actually writing a book about a “mathematical model that could predict apocalypse”. I am guessing that there must be a relationship between that fictional book and the Math Forecasting Initiative. It maybe related to the weather pattern on the island too, since the Hanso Foundation website was mentioning something about math model of weather that could predict the movement of population center.
Comment 7, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Do anyone else think that Henry is just trying to manipulate them? In other words, all what he said are lies?
Comment 8, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Aussie wrote:
Ah, I knew I had read something about apocalypse somewhere! That’s sort of what I was hinting at in the post. I definitively think there is a connection between the Hanso project and Troup’s book.
Comment 9, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
I agree with Aussie, everything that fake HG says is to manipulate those around him. I do not believe a word he says. It is interesting though that he seems to know so much about the Losties. He knows exactly where to turn the knife with Locke and Ana. Are the Losties constantly being monitered by the Others? I don’t believe that Goodwin could have spent so much time with the Others to relay so much information about Ana. He hears everything through the hatch door too….
I was completely taken by surprise with this episode and loved every minute of it. I do believe Libby will have more to say before she goes. Doesn’t it seem that both Ana and Shannon reconciled their biggest issues before the end? I do not recall if Boone did the same….maybe with his ability to move on from the hold Shannon had on him? Just a thought…maybe a clue? And what is Libby’s biggest issue?
I love the good-bad theme. We can see it everywhere, all around us. Then change your perspective and the good-bad picture changes. Business and politics are especially suspect and look what is happening in LOST -business and politics oh….and lets not forget religion. But doesn’t it really just boil down to control??? Those in control and those without it….and then there are a very few people who seem to be able to rise above that standard.
If this is the beginning of the month can you imagine the season finale? Andreas, I love this blog. Thanks!
Comment 10, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
I think Henry is a plant; I think he was sent there to manipulate the survivors into turning against each other and then destroying each other. Everything about him is a lie. Only a few of the islanders are able to see through him and John is definitely not one of them. John is so easy to manipulate; he is pathetic. Also, I think Michael was sent back to the group to help destroy the group also. He is there to help Henry and he is either brainwashed or he is doing this to save his son. The “good ones” are the ones who are trusting, vulnerable, and easily led. This is the only kind of person the “others” need to be their mind slaves, follow their orders, and punch in the numbers.
Comment 11, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
I think what Henry said to John is likely a lie. Of course, he didn’t do anything to John when he had the chance. So, maybe he does feel John is ‘good’.
As for Good and Bad, I agree that societies views are likely not what the others mean by good and bad. Keep in mind, they took all of the children, and if anyone is good, it is children. They also tried to take Eko the first night, after he spent his day saving people and being strong in the face of disaster. So, maybe good is innocence, selflessness, etc.
It is easy to say that Michael is being blackmailed into bringing the Losties to the Others in a trap, but I hardly think he needed to murder 2 people and injure himself just to do it. I would say he is a convert, and he is working with he others now.
The only problem I have is that if he is with the Others, he must have been deemd to be ‘good’, and if he’s good, would they send him to kill people. Killing is bad in any culture or religion, well, almost all of them.
His reason for killing them, who knows? Guess we will find out next year.
One thing I am wondering, and maybe someone can help me on this one. Why did the Others take the tailies but not the season 1 people?
Comment 12, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Maybe Libby will be able to give Hurley one final piece of Wisdom to see him through, now that he’s losing (?) his true love?
Comment 13, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
I think that the Libby issue is a little larger then most have commented. I think that she was a plant in the mental hospital that Hurley was in. Considering thats where the numbers came from also, I think she is tied into getting at least Hurley to the island!
Comment 14, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
I just caught a bit of an interview with Michelle Rodriguez on Good Morning America. The clip was on yahoo, and she confirmed that she is off. Her contract stated an early exit for her when she signed on, and it doesn’t have to do with the DUI… they asked.
No word about Libby, though.
Not sure if that’s a spoiler. If so, please edit me. Sorry.
Comment 15, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
…oh.
And she did say “desperation makes a man do crazy things.”
That’s a bit of a paraphrase, but was in reference to the statement: “Michael? Who would have thought it would be Michael?” (again, a bit of paraphrasing)
Comment 16, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Check your TiVO: Libby fell clutching the blanket and did not let go…wouldn’t someone dead have arms relax & fall away from the body as they fall to the ground?…bad acting or the intended action? I think she is alive… The mystery between Hurley and her is a good one…why waste a good tease? But then again….it is “LOST”…
Another thing: What’s with the biblical names? Sarah and Aaron? Many biblical references throughout. I read in an article somewhere today that the name of the author (Gary Troup) of the manuscript (”Evil Twin”) that Sawyer was reading was an anagram for “Purgatory”. Anyone want to weigh in on that?
Comment 17, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
If I recall correctly, in the episode that explains what happens to the tail section for the first 48 days they say something like “they were good” to justify taking the children.
Comment 18, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
you guys all need to get a life
The writers and strecthing and LOST will go down in flames.
Should have been a 2 season “mini-series” that would have rocked
It will all end in tears aka DALLAS.. it was just a dream
LOL
Comment 19, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Earlier in Season 1, I got the hint-impression that Walt had some special “powers”. Do you remember when he was at his mother’s house and the bird flew into the glass door and died? I got the impression that he made the bird fly into the glass. Also, I got the impression that the newborn baby was supposed to have some “special powers” etc. If you remember, the physic who talked with the mother seemed very upset when he did the reading.
For weeks, I kept waiting for this issue to come up again and it did not. I think this is the reason the Others wanted Walt - for his special supernatural powers that he might possess. I wonder if this “supernaturalness” has anything to do with the Others? Just a thought.
Comment 20, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Am I the only one who saw the commercial for the Hanson institute in the commercial break about about 50 minutes past the hour? A real, well produced commercial between real commercials?
Comment 21, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Potatoman: What that commercial was was a part of the “Lost Experience”, new webmaze material. If you call the 877 HANSORG number, you are lead to a series of fake msgs, and it’ll give you a password for the site www.thehansofoundation.org, where you can find out more clues about the show; this is the first piece of a heavily promoted “game” that ABC and the LOST producers are sponsoring. You can read more about it in my post here:
lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/the-...
(Andreas introduces it in the post just below that)
As for this article on the “good” people, I’ve always been a little hesitant to theorize about what good meant in this context… I’ll be the first to say I really have no idea and only guesses. I would just say that I *hope* it isn’t just morally good vs. bad, which would be oversimplifying life… and this show has always been great about showing us the complexity of human beings and their motivations–that only in bad Hollywood movies, are people purely one or the other. “Good” could mean suitable for experimentation, for example.
I agree that “Him” is probably refering to Hanso himself… always seemed the most viable choice to me. One interesting thing about Hanso is that though he is such a supposed humanitarian, the only photo of him offered up to us to date is that blurry one that is now on thehansofoundation.org (it’s also the one that was shown in the Orientation film found in Swan Station).
Comment 22, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Cecilia wrote:
I agree that in reality, no person is either good or bad, but what if the memebers of the Dharma Initiative for some reason need to determine which people are good or bad in a moral sense. Of course it would be simplifying life, but if say, only a limited number of persons could get on board a spaceship to be saved from the apocalypse, then there would need to be some form of rules for selecting participants. Some would be labeled “suitable” or “good” and others would be “unsuitable” or “bad”.
I’m not saying that there’s a spaceship involved, and I’m not sure if I belive that the Dharma Initiative are trying to save certain people from the end of the world, I’m just using examples to explain my point of view on the good/bad thing.
Comment 23, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Hello to the best Lost blog !
I have just seen the latest episode, I am staggered ! Those twists were absolutely amazing, I can’t explain why Ana was so suddenly killed (they really ought to explain it). What I mean is, out of blue, she becomes really naughty on a simple day : a “one-afternoon” stand with piggy Sawyer and a murderous drive…not that I consider the both are the same, but they really made an effort for us to appreciate her on previous episodes, and show her as a nice girl.
This was too fast I think, it makes me sad to lose her so suddenly.
As for Mickael, firstly, I thought he committed suicide by aiming for his heart, and the theory would have been his sacrifice for his son’s life. But I read all the posts, and you all agree to think he shot his arm.
I hardly believe the theory about his next active complicity with the others : what for ? Being a mole ? He’s done now !! How will he explain that Henry undid his tie, stole a gun, being locked, and then killed Ana peacefully seated on the couch ???? NO WAY MICKAEL WILL REMAIN A MOLE !
Either he’s gonna be an hostage for Henry to get away, either he’s gonna kill himself with the gun, but I am sad that we won’t see him anymore like the cool guy he used to be in season one …. this is awful !!!!!!
About the good and the bad ones, I widely share Cecilia’s point of view.
In my opinion, the show clearly changes. Before this was the story of survivors surrounded by weird creatures and stuff like that.
Now I think this is more a show like 24.
I see Henry like some crazy terrorist guy, I mean a crazy fanatic guy, from a religion or a sect.
Try to talk to a extremist Muslim, he will tell you that we, Western people, are bad : he sees the world as though there were two sides, his and other’s. I mean Locke is considered as a good guy because, unlike Jack, he’s open-minded with mysteries, faith, irrationality, and also because unlike Sawyer for instance he never hurt anyone.
Of couse for us this separation is stupid ! Locke is as good as Jack, or even Sawyer who is so funny. But still, the terrorists are crazy but their sense of reality give us doubts.
That’s how I interpret the apology of Jack with Locke about the Henry torture with Sayid. I mean the whole show is now about “HOW DO WE REACT TO FACE TERRORISTS ?”.
They are nuts, irrational and violent, how do we have to be ?
They have some values, do we have to reject them all ?
We don’t understand why they hate us, we are looking for some reasons, but there are not.
We may have hurt them first, does it a reason why we should let us hit by them ?
Does anybody feel the show this way now or am I wrong ?
Comment 24, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. It’s just two sides of the same coin in my opinion.
I agree that the good/bad thing very well could be a fanatic guideline made up by a person who controls The Others in much the same way other fanatical groups are convinced to follow a number of chosen guidelines.
Comment 25, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
henry gale might be the “one”…how about that? the good old game: go to the place where they sure wan’t be looking for you…
Comment 26, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Did you also notice that on the Hanso Foundation website at the Mathematical Forecasting Initiative section (after talking to Persephone and logging in at Thomas Mittelwerk) some words have been left out in the upper right screen (next to the picture of the African woman)?
I guess the blank that appears in the sentence “of the developing African nation of ..”, refers to Zanzibar (since this was highlighted in one of the letters that show up in one of the easter eggs). Perhaps the capital (since that’s also a blank in one of the following sentences) of Zanzibar is a password that we need for the login… Since on the old site, Copenhagen appeared to be the password that revealed a secret letter…
Comment 27, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
This is all beginning to sound like Asimov’s “Foundation” series. Hari Seldon is mathmatician who can predict the future with his equations. The future looks bleak and so he sets up his “foundation” to carry the torch of humanity through the dark age he forecasts will come. Could that be what Dharma is up to?
Comment 28, posted 2 years, 6 months ago - Quote and reply
Hey. I’m new, but ive been watching the show since day 1, so if i repeat someones idea, dont get all mad. Now, I think the Dharma Initiative is a process of weeding out the good humans from the bad( I heard it mentioned earlier) but I could never think of why. And then, a revelation occurred. I saw an article on Mars exploration, and how life on mars could be possible someday. What if those at the Dharma Initiative were trying to weed out the good humans from the bad as to start a new civilization on Mars as to rival those on Earth? Now, I could just have some crazy idea in my head, but it is a possibility (i guess lol)
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