The Fallon Theory
1 year, 5 months ago by WillRead more: Ben, jacob, Locke, Lost Theories
Thanks to contributor “Aonghus Fallon” for this particular theory that covers multiple mysteries related to the show in a thought-provoking manner (minor editing by me):
Two of the most ancient myths known to man deal with exile. The first man and woman lived in a beautiful garden, immortal and unchanging – until they were tempted to eat the forbidden fruit of knowledge by the serpent. They were driven out of the garden and prevented from ever entering it again by an angel. The second myth concerns an angel who rises up against his father/creator and is exiled from heaven as a result. Some day he and his minions plan to storm the gates of heaven once more.
I think ‘Lost’ combines these two myths and tries to establish that they have a common ancestry.
THE ISLAND.
The island is the origin of all possible realities – as it is the origin of man and woman. It is also the location of the ‘Garden of Eden’, and the inhabitants of the island experience the beneficial effects of the island’s peculiar reality in the same way as did Adam and Even. To live on the island is to live in a state of stasis, immortal and unchanging, but equally unable to reproduce. Adam and Eve only procreated after leaving the garden.
THE GARDEN.
The ‘garden’ is located on the far side of the island. This is inhabited by a being who had a crucial role in the evolution of the human species, intentionally or otherwise. The actual nature of this ‘garden’ has become shrouded in myth. It might not be a ‘garden’ as such, anymore than it might contain a literal ‘tree of knowledge’ – but it does contain something worth having.
ANGELS.
The garden is protected by a creature which our ancestors might have described as an ‘angel’ but which Rousseau more accurately describes as a ‘security system.’ The biblical Jacob fought an angel, often believed to be samael, also known as the accuser. I can only assume the two ‘angels’ have been contracted into one. This would explain the peculiar effect the ‘angel’ has on those who confront it – how it takes the form of somebody they mistreated.
JACOB.
Jacob is a being who rose up against his creator, his ‘father’ and who was driven out of the garden as a result. This same Jacob encouraged man (another of his ‘father’s’ creations) to take the vital evolutionary step that resulted in his own ejection from the garden.
Jacob is determined to re-enter the garden, by force if necessary, and with this end in mind is recruiting a tribe of like-minded individuals - in the bible, Jacob was a jewish patriarch. This ‘tribe’ consists of his allies from the original insurrection along with anybody else who has ended up on the island in the meantime.
By ‘like-minded’ I mean Jacob is only interested in people willing to challenge the father-figure. If they have brought about their fathers’ deaths or – even better – killed their fathers, this makes them kindred souls. Just as only a truly holy person can see the face of God, your ability to see Jacob (or his willingness to be seen) depends on how great a role you played in your father’s demise. Ben assumes Locke will see Jacob after killing his natural father, not realising that Locke has only engineered his father’s death rather than killed him outright – ie. he got Sawyer to do the dirty work. Thus Locke only glimpses Jacob. He also hears him. Nonetheless, Ben is furious that Jacob permits Locke even this much, given that Locke hasn’t fulfilled the necessary criteria for tribe membership.
THE DHARMA INITIATIVE.
Direct exposure to the electro-magnetic field (located at the island’s core) leaves an individual with precognitive abilities – e.g. Des. The Initiative was set up with the intention of exploiting this feature for the greater good. People were immersed in this electro-magnetic field and then left the island as agents.Their role was to use their precognitive powers to influence the destiny of the world – ‘their’ world – in a positive way.
JOHN LOCKE.
In time the Initiative became aware of the garden’s existence as well as its importance. A group of precogs, permanently based on the island, established that Jacob’s army would attack the garden at some later stage. An exploration of all possible outcomes revealed that one key individual could successfully protect the garden and ensure that this attack failed – John Locke.
DHARMA VS. JACOB.
The Dharma Initiative’s decision to ensure John Locke’s arrival on the island via their powers brought them into conflict with Jacob’s tribe. A member of the initiative – Ben Linus – was recruited by the tribe and all members of the Iniative present on the island at that time were killed. The apparatus built by the Initiative was then used to create more precogs. However these precogs were dedicated to exploring how Jacob might succeed rather than fail in his attack on the garden. It became apparent that, just as Locke was crucial to the successful protection of the garden, there were others inhabiting his reality who would be crucial to Jacob’s cause.
THE CRASH.
The plane crash was orchestrated by Dharma field agents to ensure John Locke’s arrival on the island. However, Jacob’s field agents ensured a number of potential recruits were also on board.
FREE WILL.
Why not approach the people involved directly? From a very early stage it became apparent that a successful outcome was only possible (for either side) if events unfolded in a specific manner and order, the plane crash being a crucial example. I say either side because, whereas precogs can influence events, they cannot affect free will. Bringing John Locke to the island does not guarantee he will do as he is expected – although (once on the island) it is inevitable that he reach a point where he be given the opportunity to protect the garden. This is his ‘destiny’. Thus Ben’s attempts to sabotage this destiny – by trying to recruit Locke and then kill him – were doomed from the outset and show he is losing his grip.
Comment 1, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Um, wow. Very thorough. Not sure how I feel about the precogs aspect of the theory, but everything else is plausible. Good job!
Comment 2, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
I don’t know if this has been mentioned before but would it not be inconsistent for one of the major mysteries of Lost to be explained by a solely Christian myth i.e. ‘The Garden of Eden’ or ‘Purgatory’ (I know this one has been be dunked) given that there are clearly other Religions represented on the island?
Great lost blog btw.
Comment 3, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
de bunked even! ;-)
Comment 4, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Tina, accidentally pushed the thumbs down on your first comment…I don’t know what this is for…
Comment 5, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
@Hammer
The Thumbs up and down are used to rate that particular comment. We are experimenting with adding a few new features; we shall see if they are here for good or will not be used permanently.
Comment 6, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer wrote:
To add to Kris’ explanation, we hope this specific utility (thumbs up/thumbs down) will come in handy next season when we have hundreds of comments for a single post. We will eventually add a sort feature so that you can come back to a particular thread and sort based on the “karma” of the post, which hopefully means the really good stuff floats to the top…
Comment 7, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Thanks Kris and Will.
Comment 8, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
About the first point… Adam and Eve were actually able to procreate while living in the Garden. The bird process was painless and natural. Only when the lost the grace they would conceive children with labor pains. It is correct they would live forever, but is ALSO correct EVE could bear children.
Just my 2 cents
Comment 9, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
“THE ISLAND.
The island is the origin of all possible realities – as it is the origin of man and woman. It is also the location of the ‘Garden of Eden’, and the inhabitants of the island experience the beneficial effects of the island’s peculiar reality in the same way as did Adam and Even. To live on the island is to live in a state of stasis, immortal and unchanging, but equally unable to reproduce. Adam and Eve only procreated after leaving the garden.”
I really like your theory, but here’s some hole pokin’: Living on the island doesn’t make everyone immortal or unchanged. Obviously Ben, his father and friend got older, and MANY people have died. Even the island’s Adam and Eve are dead. The question is WHO(Alpert?) is immortal and why. Also, WHO is unable to reproduce on the island? Are ALL of the others from the real world or are they “Alperesque”. We still don’t know where they came from.
Comment 10, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
To further the free will point. Locke has often not interfered with Losties’ free will, but has clued them in as to what they should do. Ben is always “convincing” people to do things instead of just forcing them to. Until the end of S3, that is. His desperation has him messing with free will and fate. It seems Danielle may also know what is supposed to happen. She’s been waiting in the jungle for 16 years to confront the others? She turns Ben over the Losties? She disappears and reappears at odd times? Desmond was told not to bother messing with fate, but kept saving Charlie, but eventually…
Going even deeper, Eko was “directed” onto the plane, Claire was too, you’ll remember pretty much all the main character were “directed” onto the plane. Are all these outsiders keepers of fate?
Comment 11, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Vladimir Cezar wrote:
____________
Not certain of this, but I’m pretty sure that there isn’t any report of Adam and Eve conceiving pre-fall or animals procreating either. It was only after the fall that they were commanded be fruitfull and multiply, but bear with them the pains of childbearing and labor, both of the body and the earth as punishment for theirs sins against God. It wouldn’t surprise me if they existed in a static immortality as you suggested of the islanders.
Not certain, just trying to pry 4 years of Christian college out of the recesses of my brain.
Comment 12, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Your take on Jacob is interesting too. Could explain why everyone who survived the crash seems to have “daddy issues”.
Also could explain why Jacob said “Help me.” Maybe he isn’t trapped in the cabin by Ben, but is literally asking Locke to help him in his cause. Though I am still intrigued by why they showed us the painting of a dog in Jacob’s cabin. An easter egg I just can’t figure out.
Comment 13, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
HOLY CRAP YES, no more comments necessary
Comment 14, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Wow, now you’re copying the Digg comment thumbs? UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Comment 15, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
support for this theory
-the animals (maybe Dharma didn’t bring them but only studied them) the only reason for polar bears to be on a hot island is if they were created there, and according to the story of Eden all species of animals were created there.
-Jack’s desperation to get back to the island, very big clue, man has been struggling to re attain Eden since we were expulsed
-In the bible it says that God left a “multi directional sword of flame” to protect the garden from re entry by man, could be the monster
-it is commonly acknowledged that the garden of Eden was a part of a place called Eden, a part of the island?
-is Jacob the serpent?
-Adam and Eve found in the caves, were the names coincidental?
-the “magic box” tree of knowledge??
-the tree of life-reason for immortality and healing??
-the four toed statue-Eden is theorized to have been buried underwater during the flood with Noah’s Ark prior to this it is believed the location was known, could be signs of an earlier civilization, damaaged by the flood
-the difficulty to find it-Eden’s supposed to be impossible to find
-the visions and whispers-angels sent to protect Eden?
very cool theory, sounds very legit
Comment 16, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
really like the thumbs up thumbs down thing. :)
i don’t like the theory at all. sorry. the only part i like is that jacob wants people with daddy issues. do we know anything about juliet’s dad or mother? i’m trying to remember & i can’t think of anytimes she talked about them…
Comment 17, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Phew. Full on theroy there. I must admit I’m not too excited about the LOST mystery & series turning out to be religion based. But we’ll see how it pans out eh?
I support the “daddy issues” aspect & in lieu of that can’t wait to see what Kate has in store as she killed he father in a most spectacular way! Perhaps that’s what Ben & Kate spoke about at their little breakfast meeting?
We’ll see we’ll see. Bring on Feb 08
Comment 18, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
This theory is pretty lame.
Comment 19, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
A group of precogs would explain how The Others created dossiers of the Losties so quickly. Previously, I had thought that Ethan got their names, passed them to Ben, who then called his mainland people to research their backgrounds.
But, with a group of precogs…
- They already knew the plane was going to crash
- They already knew who was going to be on it
- Thus, they had plenty of time to do background checks and have the dossiers completed prior to the crash
- Jacob had already chosen whom he wanted to abduct
- And the purpose of collecting the names was merely to see which potential abductees had survived (but wouldn’t the precogs already know who was to survive??)
Comment 20, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Regarding Precogs collecting dossiers. By Ben Linus admission, Jack coming to the island was a surprise to him, “Do you believe in God, Jack…a [week] after being diagnoses with a tumor a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky. Also, Season 3, Ep. 1, Ben orders Ethan and others to gather information about who is on the plane.
A note: The Others do not see very far into the future as they keep getting caught or killed. They appear to be bumbling through many things. Could we be reading into the show more philosophy than necessary? One impressive part of the Bible account of humanity is that it is just a story about ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances.
You decide.
Comment 21, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
I really like your theory, but here’s some hole pokin’: Living on the island doesn’t make everyone immortal or unchanged. Obviously Ben, his father and friend got older, and MANY people have died. Even the island’s Adam and Eve are dead. The question is WHO(Alpert?) is immortal and why. Also, WHO is unable to reproduce on the island? Are ALL of the others from the real world or are they “Alperesque”. We still don’t know where they came from.
Hammer,
I agree. There’s a couple of big holes in my hypothesis. I meant to include a list of qualifiers.
The garden is on the island - in other words, the garden is not the entire island. The features of the garden - stasis - are felt to a lesser extent throughout the island. Only within the garden are they absolute. And outside the garden they are inconsistent. I think Ben may be immune to the island’s influence for a number of reasons. He got a tumour. He obviously has the advice of precogs, but is unable to divine the consequences of his own actions, so he has never benefited from immersion. I think - outside the garden - you would probably enjoy a unnaturally protracted life-span, but this doesn’t make you immune to ‘acts of god’ (no pun intended). A severe injury will kill you.
(2) It is possible that the inhabitant of the garden is exerting his powers selectively to further his own agenda - re Locke’s mysterious powers of recovery.
Comment 22, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Also could explain why Jacob said “Help me.” Maybe he isn’t trapped in the cabin by Ben, but is literally asking Locke to help him in his cause. Though I am still intrigued by why they showed us the painting of a dog in Jacob’s cabin. An easter egg I just can’t figure out.
Absolutely. I didn’t notice the dog, but it sounds like an interesting clue.
Comment 23, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
my mate andy reckons the island is the devil and there’s a reverse purgatory deal going on….what do you reckon?
Comment 24, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
“To further the free will point. Locke has often not interfered with Losties….’
Hammer,
I’m not sure we’re in disagreement here. From what you say, Locke and Ben are careful to use the art of persuasion rather then coercion – i.e. they are careful not to interfere with an individual’s right to choose a particular course of action. The characters still have free will.
In any event, I was thinking specifically about precogs. But you got me thinking. Maybe there should be one key restriction on precogs.
Precogs can only influence events in such a way as to provide an individual with an additional choice. This choice must be crucial, life-altering decision.
Simply put, you could say that precogs can only ensure a character fulfils a destiny greater than the one originally ordained for them. ‘Greater’ can mean a greater opportunity to commit evil as well as good.
Thus Charlie chooses a worthwhile death over a pointless one. Ironically, Des ends up a character in the very narrative he is trying to influence. While Des the Precog tries to influence Charlie’s fate. Des the man reveals Charlie’s fate to him and so events move forward.
Comment 25, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Ummm, these aren’t “Christian myths.” I guarantee if you’d refer to Islam as myth, there’d by an uproar.
Comment 26, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Some good thoughts (some not). Needs more supportive explanation (facts) in most categories. “The Crash” section is just statement of ‘opinion’ with no support at all. The “Free Will” section had me the most worried… but Will later replied and appears not to be captured. -2
Comment 27, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
meathead wrote:
———-
I don’t think his reference the these stories as “myths” was meant in a derogatory fashion, but rather in the anthropological sense of religious “myths”, i.e. the stories that varying religions tell. Don’t pick a fight where there doesn’t need to be one.
Comment 28, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
i have 3 problems with people being immortal in the garden:
~ i’m not convinced that mikhail is immortal. he said that the fence was turned up high enough too kill somebody & the island has healing powers.
~ richard not aging doesnt make him immortal.
~ nobody has come back from the dead.
Locke isn’t the only one they want on the island. They wanted Jack (to do surgery on ben), Kate & Sawyer (to make a baby), Claire (cuz she was preggers), & Alex (for ben).
I think you’re wrong about dharma. They weren’t doing experiments to see if electro magnets would make u precog & then see if u could change the world. They were doing some other type of experiments.
I do think that Jacob’s “help me” was because he wanted locke to help him & join his cause. And it would make sense if Jacob wanted people with daddy issues since they all have em.
Comment 29, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Stop reading these Aonghus and do some work!
Comment 30, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Will –
On the basis of the points raised by Hammer and others, can I make a revision to the theory?
THE ISLAND.
The island is the origin of all possible realities – as it is the origin of man and woman. It is also the location of the ‘Garden of Eden’
THE GARDEN.
The ‘garden’ is located somewhere on the island. Any living creature within it exists in a state of stasis, immortal and unchanging, but equally unable to reproduce. Adam and Eve only procreated after leaving the garden. Even outside the garden, its peculiar laws affect the inhabitants of the island to varying degrees. e.g. women can conceive, but will die before they give birth and some characters exhibit unusual longevity, recuperative powers etc.
The garden is inhabited by a being who had a crucial role in the evolution of the human species, intentionally or otherwise. The actual nature of this ‘garden’ has become shrouded in myth. It might not be a ‘garden’ as such, anymore than it might contain a literal ‘tree of knowledge’ – but it does contain something worth having.
Comment 31, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Hammer –
Earlier you asked about the dog in Jacob’s cabin. I just checked this out. It’s an additional clue in a theory which I considered including but discarded– mainly because it conflicts with some aspects of my original theory, but also because it raises so many questions. I guess the dog picture tips the balance in its favour, so here it goes. I really hate this theory and there are so many loose ends, I’d prefer if you didn’t include it in the original theory. More biblical stuff, I’m afraid…
THE STORY OF ESAU AND JACOB.
This is a long, convoluted story, so I’m only going to cite the relevant information.
(1) Esau and Jacob were twins. To keep things simple, Easau was a hairy hunter (Esau in means ‘hairy’ in hebrew) whereas Jacob was a hairless hermit. Jacob was the younger and smarter of the two.
(2) Jacob impersonated Esau in order to gain his birthright. Basically Jacob’s dad was blind and Jacob got his blessing (and presumably the family fortune in the process) by impersonating his older brother, using some goatskins to cover his arms – ie. to suggest they were hairier than they actually were.
THE ‘ECKO STORYLINE’ – An easter-egg?
The story of Ekco mimics or (har har) ‘echoes’ the story of Jacob and Esau with one crucial difference – the roles are reversed. Thus Ecko, the warrior and the outdoor type ends up impersonating his younger, holier brother and acquires his ‘birthright’ – his vocation - in the procss. Which brings us to Jacob and Locke….
JACOB & LOCKE: DATA & LORE (?)
The Ecko storyline is an easter egg, prefiguring the relationship between Jacob and Locke – i.e. that they’re brothers. It refers back to the story of Jacob and Esau, but it also establishes that some features of the Locke-Jacob storyline will be the other way round. So now we have a hairless hunter type and (on the basis of that one glimpse) a hairy recluse. And – unbeknownst to him - one brother is impersonating another….
Oh yeah. And Esau had a dog. I’m not a talmudic scholar and I can’t find out a damn thing about it - just antiquated phrases like ‘How hairy was Esau’s dog?’ - and that the dog got sacrificed for some reason or other and that – being a hunter – Esau probably loved it.
So on the basis of all this stuff, we’re meant to assume that Locke was originally from the island – explaining his ‘special’ relationship with it. He’s coming home. Maybe Jacob got rid of him somehow and took his place. Only now he’s back. And now the two brothers are going to fight one another – one attacking the garden (and his father) the other defending them.
Comment 32, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
aonghus fallon wrote:
No disagreement…I was trying to further your point.
Comment 33, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Fallon - re: 31. I’m prefer to include it in your original theory as the show uses so much religion. I’ve been waiting for someone to help figure out why the dog painting was shown. This is a good thought.
Comment 34, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Nice theory. It has some bugs but they all do.
So, based on this theory, is God himself (herself/itself) a player in all this? If we follow the Garden story through, it ends in Revelation, where God destroys the world and builds a new one. If we throw in what we know from the Lost Experience, DHARMA was attempting to manipulate the Valenzetti equation to produce different results, and, in effect, prevent the destruction of the world.
BUT, if God is a player, and it is his will that the world be destroyed as described in Revelation, then are Ben and his people really the good guys after all and DHARMA the agents of evil? IF DHARMA had figured it out, the world (and the evil in it) would continue on.
On a personal level, I would still have trouble reconciling Ben as one of the “good guys”, but from a biblical perspective, the great Judaic kings were all also military commanders, responsible for death in God’s name.
Or maybe they’re all in that snowglobe.
Comment 35, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Aonghus -
The second part of your theory is even more interesting! And it could be true even if we find out that the first part is not.
In Lost the names mean something, we know so well, but in this case is amazing. Damon Lindelof is Jewish, so he could actually have though something like that.
aonghus fallon wrote:
That is a very fascinating point… but - from what I have understood - if Jacob was actually impersonating Esau/Locke he should be known as ‘Esau’ and not as his real name….
aonghus fallon wrote:
I think that the most important thing that you discovered is the possible relationship between the two. Maybe even Jacob is not from the Island and he found out he was supposed to go there to find his own meaning, just like Locke.
Comment 36, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
I’m prefer to include it in your original theory as the show uses so much religion. I’ve been waiting for someone to help figure out why the dog painting was shown. This is a good thought.
Fair enough, but if we all think it through, maybe we could come up with an explanation that doesn’t conflict with the existing theory. There are a lot of problems re the time-line (although this depends on when Locke left the garden) Locke’s apparent amnesia and Ben’s inability to notice the eerie similarity between his boss and Locke. John’s (supposedly) biological father only compounds the issue.
Anyhoo, it’s your call.
Just to clarify - Esau is impersonating Jacob. John Locke (unbeknownst to him) is the true Jacob.
This fact has a lot of ramifications. Crucially, the ‘others’ may be acting from positive motives. They believe Jacob is destined to ensure the island/garden is protected and they will do whatever he says in order to further this agenda. However they are worshipping a false prophet. I presume at some later stage, the truth will out and the cult will split into two factions; those who support John Locke and a hardcore who choose to remain followers of the ‘false’ Jacob - e.g. Ben, if he’s still around.
Comment 37, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Another bone to throw out there. Locke’s business name was “Welcome Home”, another clue to further your idea of Locke’s returning to the island as a homecoming.
Comment 38, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Am I the only person who thinks Jacob is Jacob Vanderfield from the Hanso Foundation?
Comment 39, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Ickiii - You may be correct, but how would you explain the fact that only Ben can see him and Locke could only hear him…but he was clearly there per the screne caps?
Comment 40, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Guys, this is going to be my last blog, for various reasons.
I think I figured out the Esau storyline in a way that’s consistent with my original theory. I had no reservations about posting up my first theory as a lot of people were accusing the series of going nowhere (or rather, in too many directions) whereas I felt the writers were following a clear narrative arc. If anything, showing people that the story had a direction and a point (and an overall structure) might help ratings - which, mind you, don’t need that much help.
However, sometimes you can keep picking away at the threads of a story until there’s no story left. I like where they’re going with the Esau storyline and I think explaining my version of it in detail could be classified as a plot spoiler.
Also, I had never posted anything onto any site until a fortnight ago. I had no idea it was this addictive. I seem to spend half my time analysing the various plot-lines of ‘Lost’ and well, basically…. life is too short. That said, I really enjoyed the site, your comments and theories etc, and wish you well, especially Hammer, Will and Rejus. I’ll leave you with a couple of (not very cryptic) clues re the Esau plot-line.
(1) Lost boys.
(2) A kid who loved his dog.
(3) His dad was pretty furious. What was Esau hunting?
(4) Who was that kidney really for?
Comment 41, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Fallon -
Sorry to hear it…thanks for your contribution, I really enjoyed it.
Comment 42, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Perhaps this sounds picky, but there are a couple of points (Biblically) that need correcting. First, humans *were* able to procreate before the Fall - indeed, they were commanded to (Gen. I: 28).
The angel with which Jacob wrestled is actually thought to have been God Himself, and Jacob actually receives a blessing from God because of it(Gen. XXXII: 22-30).
Not sure how these two things influence your theory, but it seems to me that the role of Jacob in the show may need some revision. Nonetheless, you have made some *excellent* points. I particularly like the parallel between the cherub in Genesis and the smoke monster. Of course, in Genesis, it was plural - cherubim . . . I wonder if the smoke monster is actually a *series* of monsters. . . .
Comment 43, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
This is off topic, but since there seem to be so many enlightened folks on here I wanted to pose a question…
How is Jack’s father still alive?
Barring resurrection, it’s only possible if Jack made a mistake identifying his own father’s body.
Assuming it’s not resurrection, doesn’t this destroy all logic behind Jack being on the plane? No dead father means no trip to Australia?
Comment 44, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
A friend of mine told me that the director or writers of Lost said that Rose has a crucial role in all of it and that they are amazed that the public has not figured it out yet.
I have been thinking and thinking about this but cannot seem to recall any significant information about Rose to even begin to understand her involvement. All I can recall is that she has/had cancer and that the island seems to have healed her.
Comment 45, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Kenny (#43),
Excellent question. Sadly, I have no idea. Unless, of course, there is something to the “parallel universes” theory that’s surfaced once or twice on various boards. Perhaps in the next three seasons, we’ll begin to see more of the “universe course-correction,” and ramifications of that. For example, if Desmond had not saved Charlie those numerous times, then Charlie would have never shut down the Looking Glass, and Jack would have never made the rescue call. So, perhaps, something happens that undoes everything else - including Christian Shepherd’s death. Purely speculation, of course, since we haven’t seen the last three seasons.
Comment 46, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Kenny wrote:
It was a flash to the future, not a flashback.
Did you not see Jack meeting Kate and saying “I want to go back” etc..
Comment 47, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
i think that rose & bernard are adam & eve somehow. they were found with a black & white rock. a man and woman. why would bernard wanna leave if rose’s cancer would come back? i don’t know how to explain why their bodies would be there if they’re on the island now except for alt. reality or dfferent timeline.
Comment 48, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
aonghus fallon wrote:
Ahh.. so hope to read some of your comments when next season begins! You did a very good job.
Comment 49, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Lili wrote:
Two things to consider: Rose mentioned that the sound of Smokey was very familiar to her. Rose has/had a daughter…Ms. Klugh?
Comment 50, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Kenny wrote:
Comment 51, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Kenny/Ickiii - That’s on of things that is cool about this show. Since we don’t know yet if there are ramifications for changing fate (nulifying his death), we don’t know if Sheppard was paralyzed or if he really is dead and future Jack’s drug use has him thinking his dad is alive…still very much up in air since there are at least three scenarios.
Comment 52, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
RE: Hammer #49
The reason Rose knew the sound is because the smoke monsters sound is the same sound that New York taxi cabs make when they give change or print a receipt or something(Damon and Carl said so in the last podcast) and Rose is from New York, which you hear her say in one of the first episodes when they are talking about the sound in the backround.
Comment 53, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Lost Chicka;
I just made up 2 new Polar Bear Jokes (mostly to amuse you and bug that Limo guy)
Why di the Polar Bear kill Limo Guy?
Because he was Bi-Polar.
But this is a flexible joke;
Why did the boy Polar Bear have sex with another boy Polar Bear?
Because he was Bi-Polar.
Comment 54, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
The newspaper clipping Jack held kinda showed Jer (and across the column) tham. There was a philospher named Jeremy BENtham that designed a prison (Panopticon)and described the concept of the design was to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a “sentiment of an invisible omniscience.” In his own words, Bentham described the Panopticon as “a new mode of obtaining power of mind over mind, in a quantity hitherto without example.” I believe that Ben was in the coffin and that is why no one was there…I am still contemplating the other things going on and will write when I believe…
Comment 55, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
I don’t reckon it’s the garden of eden…more likely that it is not purgatory as understood by the Catholics but the much older theory of Limbo & Purgatory combined, as in Milton’s Paradise Lost (geddit) or Dante’s Divine Comedy. In fact in the Devine Comedy it mentions Limbo as an island in the south pacific, with a mountain in the centre. Further comparisons can be drawn with the Glutton (Hurley) who may only achieve his place in Heaven by actively seeking a useful role. Jacob is mentioned in the bible at some point as the keeper of purgatory (or limbo), limbo there being a table where Jacob dines. The Dharma initiative is probably a suicide cult or something. As for a picture of the dog, well…Locke tells a story about how his mum thought their stray retriever was his dead sister, then the kid finds the dog when his mum dies, then the kid gives the dog to Boon’s sister when he dies…the dog is a companion for those who lose a loved one…is it the same dog as Locke’s mum had? Maybe the picture of a dog has something to do with it. Or maybe the picture is Cerburus? And isn’t the polar bear straight out of Hurley’s comic as read by that kid?
All I believe the numbers do is represent the mortality of mankind, thus if the island were the point between life and the aterlife, that would explain why the numbers bring people to the island (directly or indirectly). It may be that anyone who dies on the island returns to life, goes to heaven or hell. Is there such a thing as a unified theory of lost? ha
Comment 56, posted 1 year, 5 months ago - Quote and reply
Wow, thanks to everyone for replying to that original post you’ve provided me with much to think about while aimlessly sitting at my internship.
Comment 57, posted 1 year, 4 months ago - Quote and reply
JACOB FRANK?
Comment 58, posted 1 year, 2 months ago - Quote and reply
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Comment 59, posted 1 year, 2 months ago - Quote and reply
thanks for this theory.
i tried to do some reading about jacob on wikipedia
it’s also amazing that jacob’s youngest and twelfth son is named benjamin… this could be something we could ponder on between the connection of jacob and benjamin.. :)
Comment 60, posted 1 year, 2 months ago - Quote and reply
Vladimir Cezar wrote:
yeah i agree.. it was only mentioned in the bible that because of what she had done she will experience the pain of labor.. thus she is capable of giving birth.
i love this blog.. and i love seeing other lost addicts like myself.. you don’t need to rate what i wrote here.. i just thought i’d agree to what he said..
Comment 61, posted 11 months, 4 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Tina wrote:
Errr. Just to correct you.
____________
Not certain of this, but I’m pretty sure that there isn’t any report of Adam and Eve conceiving pre-fall or animals procreating either. It was only after the fall that they were commanded be fruitfull and multiply, but bear with them the pains of childbearing and labor, both of the body and the earth as punishment for theirs sins against God. It wouldn’t surprise me if they existed in a static immortality as you suggested of the islanders.
Not certain, just trying to pry 4 years of Christian college out of the recesses of my brain.
In Genesis 1 28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number;” They are evicted only on chapter 3…. So, to make my point. The humanity, as described in Genesis would find no death. Never.
Another 2 cents…
Comment 62, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Jaclynn wrote: