I thought the episode was good - actually moved the story on a little!

I thought Juliet’s flashback was excellent. I look forward to more flashbacks for The Others. It’s very interesting to see the history of it all. I like that they’ve planted the seed that Juliet was held on the island against her will for 3+ years and that Jack might now be in the same position.

The Clockwork Orange-esque room with Karl was a juicy tidbit that reveals that experimentation seems to be on-going.

The history of Ben & Rousseau now becomes a major question. Ben tells us he’s been on the island his whole life while Rousseau claims to have crashed on the island ~16 years ago…where does Alex fit into the equation?

I was so happy to finally see Pickett die, though it was very predictable that Juliet would be the one to knock him off.

All in all, a good return. 15 more to go!

lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php...

Anyway - I loved this episode. Can’t wait to find out more about the interviewer who strangely turned up at the morgue and knew all about her sister etc.

I thought the episode was great…and well thought out…Kate has to tell the story of fear during a surgery accident at the same time he is engaged in fixing a surgery accident. It is little things like that — that make it enjoyable for me…little well-rounded episodes that do not feel contrived but that also connect and move the story along…revealing bits and bits more about the characters.

We need to get back to the other side of the island and really develop what is going on over there…those guys have gotten the shaft most of the season so far and I heard that will balance out pretty quickly.

This season looks to move us along quickly from here I think…and the evidence suggests that they have it planned out for the next year and a half or so. We’ll see!

The chase scene with Kate and Sawyer was hilariously predictable: woman falls, bad guys have bad aim, good guy’s gun runs out of ammo, everyone is rescued by emotionally tortured renagade who needs a favor, the wookie prisoner trick…my husband and I were laughing the whole way through it. Loved it!

Great scene with Carl! More Biblical references and mention of Jacob in the…programming. Such an interesting twist, especially watching Sawyer and Kate react to it. Does anyone else think Jacob might be the interviewer who recruited Juliet?

youtube.com/watch?v=l58timb95L...

youtube.com/watch?v=-K87RQQVsV...

There’s something going on on the island with fertilization, and Juliet definitely plays a huge role. We can see from her flashbacks that she is highly qulaified in that area.

When the job recruiter was shower Juliet slides and telling her that they live quite a happy and free life, he was obviously talking about the island, but why the cheesy slides that obviously showed nothing about an island?

Ethan looked frightening, anyone agree?

I would say that when Rousseau got to the island 16 years ago, Ben captired her and raised him as her own, that’s why she call shim her father. Alothough for all we know they could be referring to another man completely, one we have not met, perhaps the job recruiter?

Why after all this fuss about Dharma was a completely new scientific group brought into the picture, we have enough problems with dharma. I liked whoevers comment about it as an anagram for Lost Time.

I love this show and can’t wait for next week !!

ps the NY Times had an article today talking about how Lost and other shows about the supernatural are popular due to a decline in things socially. It also went on to say how Lost is for socially awkward people and 12 year old boys !! F*** that !! I’m a 22 year old girl in NYC and live a crazy life, but nothing’s more imprtant to me than Wednesdays with my Lost : )

It was very interesting to see the Juliet flashback. Now we know that she isn’t on the island out of her own will.

Something I found interesting in this episode was that we found out that Juliet, like Jack, is somewhat of a miracle doctor.

If Mittelos/Dharma/Hanso were willing to run over Juliet’s ex with a bus to get her to work for them. Would they crash a plane to get Jack to work for them?

I wouldn’t put it past them.
It’s really amazing if you stop and think about how they could’ve actually been responsible for killing Juliet’s ex. The timing of something like that…it’s incredible. It’s not like the bus was just slowly rolling along…that was full speed and he stepped in front of it just in time to get whalloped. (Reminded me of the end of “Mean Girls”…hilarious movie!)
If they have that much control over space/time/human decisions… there’s no telling what else they are capable of.

On a side note, it’s nice to see some familiar names commenting here!

Also, Andreas, did you disable the quote feature in the comments?

As you’ve observed, the quote feature is disabled. I will bring either that, or something better back as soon as possible.

I’m also glad to see that some “regulars” are back, welcome back everyone!

Ben most likely isn’t Alex’s real father…they have a history of stealing kids and using Juliet help them get fertile.

What do you figure Ethan was doing in Rachael’s apartment in Juliets first flashback?

My guess would be that he was monitoring Juliet and her sister to find out as much as possible about them. Like Dr.Alpert said “we’re just that serious”…

I think learning more about the blonde woman further adds fuel to the theory that Kate is now pregnant with Sawyer’s baby and that Dharma wanted the two to mate for some reason.

ps- Monica- Rachel didn’t have any problems making children. She had 12 sons (who became the 12 tribes of Israel) and a number of daughters. It was Sarah, Abraham’s wife, who had trouble. According to the Bible she didn’t have her first son (Issac) until she was 90 y/o.

The fact that Ben woke up just shows that Jack is a surgeon, not an anesthesiologist. Jack didn’t give him enough.

Actually, Rachel did have trouble having children. Jacob had two wives–Leah bore most of the twelve sons, and Rachel only bore two, Joseph and Benjamin.

Other than that, all I can say is that this was a great episode. Having seen Juliet’s backstory, I’d like to see flashback episodes for more non-castaways–my hope is to see a Rousseau flashback episode sometime this season.

I looked it up and you’re correct. Rachel had only 2 sons, Joseph and Benjamin. I guess the other 10 sons and daughters came from Leah.

Interesting to note that Rachel died giving birth to Benjamin.

Actually the other ten came from:

Leah (6 + 1 girl)
Bilhah, a handmaiden (2)
Zilpah, a handmaiden (2)

See:
johnpratt.com/items/docs/adam_...

FYI,
Ric

P.S. I was VERY satisfied with last night’s episode.

From what Pickett said in previous episodes, Jacob seems superior to both Ben and Juliet, so I’ve kind of assumed that Jacob is HIM, but I could be wrong.

That’s one of the “Easter Eggs” the producers always talk about. That scene was from Hurley’s dream at the beginning of the season 2 episode “Everybody Hates Hugo”, the same dream scene where Jin talks to Hurley in English. Walt’s “missing” picture on the carton was indicative of the fact that he had recently been kidnapped by the Others, although at that time Hurley did not actually know it.

Also, Andreas, did you disable the quote feature in the comments?

The quote feature is back!

“Ever since the sky turned purple…” *blood starts spurting everywhere*

If they are now having trouble leaving the island, why is Ben promising left and right that people can go?

Great comments everyone!

Juliette is very cold and calculating, as well as a great shot! Interesting that her specialty would be fertility. More backstory would be interesting to show how she ever got involved with that arm of science. Her sister clearly had cancer. What was Juliet thinking by trying to impregnate a sick (potentially terminal) patient???

Jack and Juliet have both been promised freedom/return to real life. What are the chances that Jack tries to get Juliet’s ride home?

What in the heck will Kate and Sawyer do with Carl once they return to the island? As Sawyer watched Kate bawl into the walkie-talkie to Jack, his face showed great torture. What is his place back on the island if Jack is gone and Kate is bent on saving him??? Does anyone think that Sawyer will voluntarily return to save Jack? I don’t.

Also…does the picture in the link below, of the man with the eye-patch, resemble the man from Portland who was trying to recruit Juliet?

lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php...

No, totally not the same guy!

I’m more or less convinced that Mittelos Bioscience is connected to the Hanso Foundation. The similarity to the name “Mittelwerk” is interesting, but I don’t think it has much importance.

Yeah I guess I was stating the obvious by pointing out a connection between Mittelos and Hanso. But what’s sticking in my mind is Juliet’s statement earlier in the season when Jack asked her about the Dharma Initiative, and she said “That was a long time ago”. By “long time” does she mean before she got to the island? So maybe Mittelos is an offshoot of the Dharma Initiative? But then, in the film that Karl was watching in room 23 (one of the Numbers, BTW), there were some images of Charles Degroot. I’m just trying to piece together the timeline of the different organizations and their relationships to each other.

Ethan looked frightening, anyone agree?

I completely agree. He always looked creepy, but now it seems like he put on some weight, and it all went to his face. Plus the longer, shaggier hair added to the effect

Andreas wrote:

Either Ben isn’t Alex’s real father or they brainwashed Danielle Rousseau and made her forget who she really was. I lean more towards the possibility that Ben adopted Alex after she was taken from Rousseau.

Something I found interesting in this episode was that we found out that Juliet, like Jack, is somewhat of a miracle doctor.

If Mittelos/Dharma/Hanso were willing to run over Juliet’s ex with a bus to get her to work for them. Would they crash a plane to get Jack to work for them?

I agree that Juliet and Jack are both miracle doctors, maybe that is why they are brought to the island. The Hanso foundation/Dharma Initiative seem to be doing layered experiments. Maybe ultimately they are looking at expanding brain activity in humans - hence the psychic abilities of some of the losties, the healing touches of Jack and Juliet, etc. But I still like my theory of the butterfly effect - where all this will boil down into one incident that sparked a chain of events leading to the present time.

As for the episode I loved it :)

Someone noticed that Karl (or Carl) was being brainwashed in room number 23. And that 23 is one of the numbers. But did anyone else notice the commercial for the new Jim Carey movie called The Number 23? Don’t tell me I’m getting off topic, I know I am, but the number 23 has some…creepy tendencies. I’m not an expert, but my best friend is convinced 23 is her unlucky number because for long bouts of time whenever she looks at a clock the minutes are 23. And she’s not the only one, that’s why they made the movie The Number 23, and maybe that’s why 23 is one of the numbers. Also 42 is one of the numbers and to anyone who has seen or read A Hicthiker’s Guide to the Galaxy 42 is the answer to the meaning of life…

Some people also think that the recruiter could be Jacob, and I that’s possible. But whoever Jacob is he is most likely way high up on the power hierarchy on the island, and Dharma/Hanso.

Thanks for letting me release my Lost related steam, I don’t know many people who watch the show.

just a thought…but i was wondering why did Ethan come back. He was killed ages ago and and last night he was most definitely walking down the hallway while Juliet walked to the surveillance room…just a thought that was bothering me

That was a flashback to at least 3 years and 2 months prior to the current “island time.” Ethan is still dead.

what happen in the end? did they get the boat from that girl that helped them hide under the ground? is that pickett? Who is desmond? who is alex? I dont remember them! I have been watching for 3 yrs, but I missed the last 15 mins. THe last part I saw was when juilet said she would help them off the island! the episode was really great! Please answer questions. thanks

They got the boat from Alex, the girl who helped them escape. Pickett is the guy who was shot by Juliet in the end of the episode.

Desmond is the Scottish guy who Locke found in the hatch in Season 2.

Chris wrote:

just a thought…but i was wondering why did Ethan come back. He was killed ages ago and and last night he was most definitely walking down the hallway while Juliet walked to the surveillance room…just a thought that was bothering me

Ethan was seen in Juliet’s flashback. He was in Miami, not on the island.

what happen in the end? did they get the boat from that girl that helped them hide under the ground? is that pickett? Who is desmond? who is alex? I dont remember them! I have been watching for 3 yrs, but I missed the last 15 mins. THe last part I saw was when juilet said she would help them off the island! the episode was really great! Please answer questions. thanks

Juliet killed Pickett so that Kate and Sawyer could return to the main island on the boat. The man in the boat was Karl; Karl is Alex’s boyfriend. Alex is Danielle Rousseau’s daughter.

“They are stuck in an eternal now. An electromagnetic tear in timespace.

Desmond didn’t crash the plane, his slip up moved them through the fold. Desmond’s lady has waited for this “signature” to find her one love.

Walt has some mastery over this. He was there before and appeared to the Others.

The mishap at the Swan with Locke…something else has come through now too.

A little heavy reading on elctromagnetism and the eternal now:

How finely can we divide our little 3-second lives? The shortest perceivable time division – sensory psychologists call it the fusion threshold – is between 2 and 30 milliseconds (ms) depending on sensory modality. Two sounds seem to fuse into one acoustic sensation if they are separated by less than 2 to 5 milliseconds. Two successive touches merge if they occur within about 10 milliseconds of one another, while flashes of light blur together if they are separated by less than about 20 to 30 milliseconds.”

That doesn’t prove anything, but it’s the main reason we’re all leaning towards Ben as her father.

Joel wrote:

…Juliet’s sister clearly had cancer. What was Juliet thinking by trying to impregnate a sick (potentially terminal) patient???

Jack and Juliet have both been promised freedom/return to real life. What are the chances that Jack tries to get Juliet’s ride home?

What in the heck will Kate and Sawyer do with Carl once they return to the island? As Sawyer watched Kate bawl into the walkie-talkie to Jack, his face showed great torture. What is his place back on the island if Jack is gone and Kate is bent on saving him??? Does anyone think that Sawyer will voluntarily return to save Jack? I don’t.

I agree alot with Joel. I wouldn’t doubt it if Rachel dies due to complications of her pregnancy (side note: I was watching last night’s episode with my mom, and when Rachel tells Juliet that she’s pregnant my mom quipped, “So she’s been having sex with some man?” I inwardly rolled my eyes). Maybe Juliet intially denies Mittelos Bioscience’s offer, but then Rachel and the baby die, and Juliet wants to further her reseacrh and recitfy her mistakes that complicated things for Rachel. We don’t know when Juliet’s flashbacks occured; we only know that she’s been on the island for more than three years, so what if Mittelos has been trying to recruit her several years before she agreed to go? Also the chances of Juliet returning home to Miami seem slim. Thinking back it seems unlikely Ben would let Sawyer and Kate off the small island with Carl without major strings attached. I also don’t think Jack will get to go “home” after nearly killing Ben.
I don’t think Kate and the Losties should attempt to “save” Jack. Anyone who has been living on the island with the Losties can see that a well thought plan of theirs will result in some one dead, or injured.
And despite his brainwasing maybe Carl will be useful to the Losties in retriving Jack; maybe they can get Alex also. But the thing is the Others don’t control her, her father does, and he controls the Others. She’s obviously not brainwashed because she digs ditches and tries to help “our good guys”. Maybe she’s not brainwashed because her “father” has lots of control and has exempted her from brainwashing.
Edmund Burke (Juliet’s ex-husband, and historical figure from the 1700s) I can not clearly see why the writers add historical figures into Lost characters. Does anyone wish to incredibly interesting life of Burke? Because really, he’s not that interesting.

Another connection: Just before Kate left her husband she took a pregnancy test that was negative….

I’ve watched all episodes - just started reading this blog (good job). One thing I notice throughout the blog is references to the Hanso foundation and Jacob, but I can’t remember much (if anything) about them specifically in the show - can someone remind me what episodes revealed them?

The Hanso Foundation was first mentioned in the third episode of season 2 called “Orientation”. In the orientation film Desmond shows to Jack and Locke we are told that The Dharma Initiative is funded by The Hanso Foundation.

Jacob was mentioned by Pickett one or two episodes ago in the sentence “Shephard wasn’t even on Jacob’s list”. We don’t know who Jacob is yet.

wow another hatch(station),

i too was glad to see the end off pickett, what a tool to o try and kill sawyer for the death off his lady collen, hows that revenge, (pickett should off tried it on sun, on;ly joking),

The only thing I question is…Is he her real father or a stand in?

I don’t think Ben is her natural father. Like other posters have said, I believe what Rousseau said is true, that the Others stole her baby. I’m sure within the Others’ society they have to have parental figures for any children they obtain, so Ben was assigned to be Alex’s “father”. And Alex wouldn’t have ever known any differently, being that she was just an infant at the time she was stolen.

“If Mittelos/Dharma/Hanso were willing to run over Juliet’s ex with a bus to get her to work for them. Would they crash a plane to get Jack to work for them?”

I wouldn’t put it past them.

It’s really amazing if you stop and think about how they could’ve actually been responsible for killing Juliet’s ex. The timing of something like that…it’s incredible. It’s not like the bus was just slowly rolling along…that was full speed and he stepped in front of it just in time to get whalloped. (Reminded me of the end of “Mean Girls”…hilarious movie!)
If they have that much control over space/time/human decisions… there’s no telling what else they are capable of.

I thought the bus scene in Final Destination started it all, but I could be wrong. Didn’t Mean Girls come after that? Anyway, Final Destination did it BEST. =]

My only big gripe about the whole episode was how PREDICTABLE that particular part was. Did anyone else know immediately as Juliette said it (about how it would take her husband getting hit by a bus for her to be allowed to go) that this was going to happen? Or see the bus and groan, knowing it was about to knock the guy off? Or think the effect of him gettin hit was not so great? They wouldn’t need Ethan to do this…I’m sure they have other lackeys who can handle the job. Anyway…it bugged me. Am I the only one? LOL. Otherwise, a splendid episode!

I too would like to know what song was playing in Carl’s brainwashing scene. Anyone know? A question still unanswered. Shocking! And does anyone have any theories about why they were doing that to the poor guy? To bring him back in line? Why did he get OUT of line? What IS the line? Who’s child is he and why is he on the island? I guess we’ll find out more about him soon, besides him just bein Alex’s boyfriend.

froggirl wrote:

Wow! Great episode! Why oh why did Jack have to nick that artery right when Tom was about to reveal something important?

“Ever since the sky turned purple…” *blood starts spurting everywhere*

Maybe Tom was about to come out to Jack? The producers DID hint that there would be a gay character on the show, and Tom DID say to Kayt (when she got uncomfortable about him asking her to shower with him present) that she was not his type. Considering that I’m 100% homosexual and I think Kayt is amazing, all arrows point to him as the first gay LOSTie!!!

(I know this isn’t rational but we’re having a little fun here, no?)

=]

The comment above was the first time I had thought about the others wanting Kate and Sawyer to “mate”, but it could explain why Pickett didn’t attempt to kill Sawyer until after he had sex with Kate.

Also, I absolutely agree with Eric et.al. who think the island is in some space/time warp.

“The voice of a woman repeating “Only fools are enslaved by time and space” can be heard in the reversed version of the brainwashing video”

spinpapi wrote:

I thought the bus scene in Final Destination started it all, but I could be wrong. Didn’t Mean Girls come after that? Anyway, Final Destination did it BEST. =]

My only big gripe about the whole episode was how PREDICTABLE that particular part was. Did anyone else know immediately as Juliette said it (about how it would take her husband getting hit by a bus for her to be allowed to go) that this was going to happen? Or see the bus and groan, knowing it was about to knock the guy off?

Yeah, I predicted Ed’s death as soon as Juliet said it too and seeing the bus in the background just confirmed it, hehe. I still think it was a cool scene though.

I also liked Ed’s conversation on the phone where he told the person he was talking to that he/she was mean and stupid, and then we find out that he is talking to his mother. What a sweet guy, hehe!

Another time/space comment….I found this tidbit on the lostpedia site on the Room 23 page which lists out all the scenes in the brainwash video.

“The voice of a woman repeating “Only fools are enslaved by time and space” can be heard in the reversed version of the brainwashing video”

Wow, that’s very interesting. I’ll have to reverse the audio and check it out!

Event Horizon (film) - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_Ho...
Event Horizon - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_ho...
Garden of Eden - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_o...
Paradise Lost - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise...

There are miracles, good/evil, wired science, religion and general wackyness.

If her bio-father is in fact in some kind of suspended animation it could mean that the “sickness” that has been referenced by Rousseau, Ethan and later Claire has something to do with it. What if it isn’t actually a disease, but rather some kind of effect that results from the brainwashing/mind numbing that was happening to Carl in Room 23? Rousseau did say that her husband got sick after he went to the Black Rock right?

Jut a whacky idea that came to mind in light of the time/space issues raised in the last episode…

Jen
Comment 73, posted 2 days, 22 hours ago - Quote and reply
Just wondering, in Juliet’s sister’s apartment, when Juliet opens the curtains, I didn’t see the airlines carrier’s name of the jet that blows by the window….anyone able to discern it?

It was an Oceanic plane that flew by.

That thought occurred to me too actually - cryogenics or something. However, why would the man guarding Carl tell Alex that he would have to call her father?

I agree that the bit about Alex calling her father shoots a huge hole into the idea, but i wonder if maybe it still would work if her real father were suspended and ben was her adopted father. what if her real father is jacob who got brainwashed/ mind numbed and is sort of cryo-ed but has some kid of weird enhanced psychic/mental abilities that allows him to communicate despite being frozen..eh, I don’t know. I hope when we do find out, it ends up being more fantastic than just that Alex was stolen from the crazy french lady and made to believe she is someone else’s kid…

I wouldn’t count out anything at this point. I think one thing we overlook is we keep calling the french woman crazy but we believe her account. Who knows what the real story is about “her” baby.