Friggin’ awesome! Perfect timing…just as Claire was starting to like Charlie again…

They’re dead for sure now, right? I don’t see how they could get out of a grave - if she could only open her eyes, the rest of her body was probably not able to move (or else surely she would have!) so I don’t see how they’ll be getting out of that rather unfortunate situation.

I’m 90% sure the entire point of that episode was to plant the walkie talkie in the hands of the survivors.

…also, nikki and paolo still live!

The fact they were buried alive with the diamonds was just brilliant writing. You truly reap what you sow…literally, as they are in the ground!

It was so great to see Boone again! I miss him. I find it very interesting that Paolo and Nikki were the first hatch finders and stupid Nikki was not the least bit interested. She was obsessed with those diamonds!

And Paolo knew about the Others so far in advance and never said a word??? What the heck is that?

Do you think they reshot pilot scenes or did we just never notice Nikki and Paolo before?

I personally think Nikki and Paolo are gone for good. There is no way they could dig their way out of that hole.

Did anyone notice how Ethan said the plane split in two over the jungle? If he were really on the plane, how the heck would he have known that? But Nikki was too busy flirting to figure it out.

I am not sure if Sun will tell anyone about the whole Charlie/Sawyer kidnapping her. So Charlie might be in the clear with Claire.

The fact Juliette said Jack was “cute” to Ben suggests the love connection that is forming between she and Jack.

Also, did Vincent know that Nikki and Paolo were dead and that was why he pulled the blankets off of them?

All in all, great episode!!!

first of all, though many of you will probably disagree, this episode was absolutely fantastic! However, the most interesting part for me was when ben and juliet spoke about jack, kate and sawyer. They talked like the entire purpose was simply to get jack. Which somewhat sounds to me that this “list” might not be exactly what we thought it was…thoughts?

Which list? There’s Jacob’s list that Picket mentioned earlier this season - “Shepherd wasn’t even on Jacob’s list”. We still don’t know who is on that list, what the list is for, who Jacob is, etc.

Or are you talking about the list Ms. Klugh gave to Michael - Hurley, Sawyer, Kate, and Jack. I think this scene btwn Ben & Juliet reinforced what we already knew about the list. They needed Jack to do the surgery. Sawyer and Kate were brought along so they’d have ways to manipulate Jack into doing the surgery. And Hurley was brought along for the reasons Ms. Klugh said - to tell the other Losties never to to to that part of the island.

I do agree that the Ben/Juliet scene was interesting. But I thought Juliet’s lines – “Is that Shepherd? He’s cute” were a bit odd. It seems like with all the info they accumulated on Jack – the file Juliet pulled out earlier this season – there must have been a photo in there. And I would have imagined that Juliet would have seen the file – being that she’s a doctor, Ben probably would have showed her the file to ask her opinion about getting Jack to do the surgery. So it seems like she should have known what he looked like.

Did anyone notice how Ethan said the plane split in two over the jungle? If he were really on the plane, how the heck would he have known that? But Nikki was too busy flirting to figure it out.

Me thinks that it has been verified that Dr. Ethan Rom was never on the plane. We saw him tend Claire at the (medical) Staff Hatch and Directed to go find the Losties by Ben and trying to recruit Juliet in Not in Portland. (but I could be wrong)

Lando Calrssian!

LOL I was thinking I could go for a Colt 45 right about now.

I’m still curious as to why Libby was in the mental institution. lol, somehow that’s the biggest mystery to me.

Haha I think she knows that. What she meant was that Nikki should’ve realized that it was a weird thing for Ethan to say

I especially loved that the writers played right into all the complaints from fans. Sawyer repeatedly asking “Who the heck are Nikki and Paolo?” made me LOL every time he said it.

I don’t think Locke telling Paolo “Nothing on this island stays buried.” was a coincidence…it’ll all come around.
Ben/Juliet in the Pearl confirmed using Kate and Sawyer to manipulate Jack into performing the surgery.
Sun/Charlie/Sawyer was pretty low-key, I don’t think we’ve seen the end of it.
Spiders freak me out, a lot, so I’ll be sure to skip that scene on my 2nd viewing.

I highly doubt this episode will draw 300+ comments, ala last week, but I look forward to reading what everyone else has to say!

I’m curious about the walkie-talkie. Will they be able to use it to communicate with the Losties who are currently in Otherville?

What was it that Paulo said to Nikki about they should have taken Ethan’s help (instead of Artz’s info on the trajectory)? They seemed awfully friendly with him…

Or maybe Vincent will dig them up?

I was wondering about the pilot scenes too. I mean, there’s no way they’d be able to afford to re-shoot a scene like that, is there? Anyone who has the DVD’s check to see if Nikki is running around?

Becky, i was also curious about how they shot those scenes. It amazes me that they knew this story of Paolo/Nikki halfway through season 2 when they placed Paolo in the bathroom.

I think they used CGI effects to insert Nikki into some of the scenes from the Pilot episode (and maybe some subsequent episodes), and then they re-created the crash scene for some of the other bits with Nikki and Paolo.

Regarding Paolo’s trip to the bathroom - that was actually in one of the first 6 episodes of this season. (although it does seem like a loooooonnnng time ago!) So the writers didn’t plan THAT far ahead. :)

PS–Paolo & Nikki didn’t have to KILL the old dude, they could’ve just knocked him out and stolen the goods. So, did the story decision to make them murderers make it acceptable that they ended up buried alive? Was The Island judging them when The Monster Sound came and the spider bit Nikki? Did the backwards storytelling, insert the two newbies into the backstory (which didn’t really work with the Tailies story-telling of yesteryear, at least not for me) work here? No, Yes, No.

As for the episode itself, I found it pretty funny, since the writers/producers managed to gave us exactly what we’ve been asking for, all the while poking fun at the audience by making the two find out about a great deal of important secrets way before the other losties (and yet, they were made to be so wrapped up with the diamonds, that they simply did not care). I thought that showed the writers’ sarcastic vein at its best.

Another funny bit: Paolo’s line: “If I go up there that thing is going to fall”, totally calling Boone’s death a long time before it actually happened…

Also, Sawyer, again, perfectly embodied the audience by saying “who the hell are you/them” at least a couple of times…

Cheers

Haha I suppose so. See I started watching LOST late when i bought season 1 and wtahced it straight rhough WHILE Season 2 was playing. it is only this season that im watching with everyone else. So my sense of timing is off. lol.

Its so much better to just magically watch the next episode. I hate this whole… commercial and waiting one week for each episode thing…

I totally agree! None of us liked them, we all complained about them… So the writers/producers listened and gave us what we wanted. While it wasn’t as awesome as The Man from Tallahassee, it was still pretty good. And we got to see lots of Sawyer. I love Sawyer!

This is very much alike what happened to Paolo: By not choosing to go with Ethan to the forest; by not asking him for help; by not climbing to the plane; by meeting the others and escaping to tell (or not) the story; by being bitten by a venomous spider…
But here, sadly (well, not really) he ended up being buried alive at the end :)

re: by saying “who the hell are you”.
———–
Yep, 3 times, first to Nikki, then Paolo, then Nikki again.

And once he said to Hurley, “Who’s Nikki?”

Shannon said in a tizzy, “STOP FLIRTING WITH RANDOM GUYS!”. I think we have it… Boone was outed.

————–
Correction - “QUIT FLIRTING WITH RANDOM GUYS!”, seconds later… Nik to Pao “I HOPE WE DON’T END UP LIKE THEM”… [and that would be DEAD - and out of an acting gig]!

The only interesting scene was in the pearl. And here,Juliette seemed to have her poker face on! She didn’t lead us away from the jack ambiguity at all! Is she just as manipulative of Jack as Ben is?

Last point–I don’t think the smoke monster came from somebody’s id. The “cerberus vents” on the map lead me to believe that it was built to guard something(like its namesake) and even has special access ports to the underbelly of the island.

What was the point of Boone and Shannon in this episode??

I am not sure what to make of this episode but that it was surprising? All that was totally not expected! Them getting it wrong about what she is saying…”I’m Paralyzed.” I didn’t see any of that coming. Then getting buried alive, that is like the worst death ever!

Talking how to bring Jack into the fold. Mention that they can get him regarding his “Emotional Investment”. Their quick answer - “Michael”. Maybe that is how they bring Michael (Perrineau) back, later on in S4.

No. They already used Michael to lure Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley to the trap that led to their capture.

DocH wrote:

Talking how to bring Jack into the fold. Mention that they can get him regarding his “Emotional Investment”. Their quick answer - “Michael”. Maybe that is how they bring Michael (Perrineau) back, later on in S4.

No. They already used Michael to lure Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley to the trap that led to their capture.

Exactamundo! - they were in the Pearl talking about how to get Jack… that is what they did - use Michael. The whole show said “84 days ago” “72 days ago” “54 days ago” “30 something days ago” “6 days ago” “8 hours ago” I won’t vouch for the exact ‘days ago’ above but the Juliet/Ben speech was XX # of days ago, and that is when they decided to use Michael to nab Jack. Which they did sometime around day 65 on the island.

Another Nik/Pao side note “we are going to miss Thanksgiving”! There is a date clue that says “less than day 60″ or so on the island.

2. Now that DL and CC have either killed off or exiled all gays, hispanics, and blacks, will we find out that Jacob is Rush Limbaugh? (Don’t mention Hurley or Sayid who act as white as the rest of the cast.) The main form of recreation on the island is golf? They should rename the show, “Mysterious Gated-Community Island.”

3. A commenter on another forum said that Shannon has a dog face. I kinda see that now. Some would say…Juliet looks like a tranny. Is Jack in store for a Crying Game moment in a future episode? BTW, it’s a damn shame I don’t write for this show.

4. Yeah, it’s gonna turn out that this is an underground snow globe island sitting on top of a big honking magnet that creates a portal to quantum parallel universes when it’s not breaking up airliners. Smokey is a Michael Crichton nanobot, and Ben’s big box is a ripoff of Solaris. These are the “scientific” phenomena that this series is supposedly based on? MacGyver made more sense.

5. Patchy ain’t dead yet. The foaming of the mouth and the blood coming out of the ears is just a temporary thing. I don’t think the Others are so quick to bury their own, unlike SOME folks. Besides, you could clearly see that he was breathing in his last scene.

I did figure it was spiders very early on-right after the conversation with Artz,but I still think it was well done. I also don’t think Ben would get caught like that…unless he wanted to. Perhaps he planted the walkie talkie on purpose for Paolo to find it. Maybe it’s bugged-that’s how they get alot of information.

I also think it’s possible that Vincent will dig them up-or maybe later on they will find their bodies, and determine that they attempted to dig themselves out but couldn’t!

I found it very interesting that Nikki pleads with Paolo-”Please promise me that we won’t end up like them!”-about Boone and Shannon, and yet, they got stuck on island, and ventually buried-nice!

Someone said maybe if Nikki and Sawyer come back, they could be Adam and Eve-so I have a question. Didn’t Adam and Eve have those stones in a little black bag like the diamonds?-or is my memory twisted again?-If so, did Sawyer dump the bag in there-or keep it for himself?-Is Sawyer Adam?

I swear early on in the episode, I thought I saw Nikki breath in the background-I chalked it up to editing-but now maybe not. Perhaps they’re breathing was only slowed, and they were both only checked for death once, nobody
continued to watch them.-So maybe not brain-dead-XtraCripsy

BTW, it’s a damn shame I don’t write for this show.

Yeah - a real shame (our loss).

Oh, wait! If only they’d dug a little deeper! There, under the exact spot where the gang chose to bury them, a tunnel linking to another underground hatch. Nikki squirms, kicks her heels, smack! hits the secret release button and N&P fall into the tunnel. Gasping, choking, still alive, they get out from under all the dirt and crawl through the dark to the secret chamber, conveniently stocked with Dharma goodies. Stuck underground due to the tunnel collapse, they use the diamonds to drill through the sides of the chamber (can that happen? does it matter?) and find their way to the surface. Unfortunately, Hurley is joy riding in the VW at that exact moment, and runs them over.

Oh, the tragedy of it all!

I think it’s great how the writers actually used the fact that everybody hates Nikki and Paolo to their advantage. Someone already mentioned Sawyer never remembering their names, but I don’t think anyone mentioned the flashback, in which Nikki gets killed of on Expose, and then tells her “boyfriend” that she doesn’t mind dying since “she’s just a minor character.”

Then again, does the old guy offering to bring her back to life mean that Nikki and Paolo won’t stay in the ground? I hope not.

2. Now that DL and CC have either killed off or exiled all gays, hispanics, and blacks, will we find out that Jacob is Rush Limbaugh? (Don’t mention Hurley or Sayid who act as white as the rest of the cast.) The main form of recreation on the island is golf? They should rename the show, “Mysterious Gated-Community Island.”

dude, is that necessary?

re: BURIAL ALIVE
—————–
Oh, wait! If only they’d dug a little deeper! There, under the exact spot where the gang chose to bury them, a tunnel linking to another underground hatch. Nikki squirms, kicks her heels, smack! hits the secret release button and N&P fall into the tunnel. Gasping, choking, still alive, they get out from under all the dirt and crawl through the dark to the secret chamber, conveniently stocked with Dharma goodies. Stuck underground due to the tunnel collapse, they use the diamonds to drill through the sides of the chamber (can that happen? does it matter?) and find their way to the surface. Unfortunately, Hurley is joy riding in the VW at that exact moment, and runs them over.

Oh, the tragedy of it all!

Ya’ll are cracking me up! I really enjoyed this episode. Not my favorite, but I’m not complaining. I too hope N&P are gone for good. I think the backstory was brilliant! As for Shannon’s and Boone’s reappearance, I think it just shows the neverending connection between the Losties. They have all crossed paths at some point. The little nods to the audience throughout were great! I wondered too about Shannon chastising Boone for flirting with random guys. I thought I heard it wrong but I guess not! Hmmm… I hope Sun can find it in her heart to forgive Charlie & Sawyer. I think she will keep it to herself, though. It seems to me like the Losties are starting to turn on each other. Their unity is breaking down. I guess 80+ days stranded on an island will do that to ya!

About the crash scene through N&P’s eyes…when she found him, he was by the beach staring out at the horizon and she had to get his attention…he looked like he had seen something or maybe it was just he was in shock by the scene unfolding before them? I started to feel by some of Paolo’s comments through the episodes that maybe he had a similar ability to Desmond and that he could see flashes of future happenings…when they find the plane in the trees and she wants him to go up and he says that if he does it will fall and he will die(or is it just common sense?). Maybe he just has the feeling that she wants to get rid of him(like she did with the old guy). Maybe he had a flash about the plane crashing and wanted to be stuck with Nik on the island. This is digging way back but remember when Claire was pregnant and going to give the baby up for adoption to someone in L.A. and went to the psychic. He saw something and wanted her to be on the Oceanic flight(and on the island?) because the baby wouldn’t have been safe with the adoptive parents in L.A. The idea that some people knew the plane was going to crash…I don’t know…I am probably just reading too much into some of these things but who knows with this show!!

I was wondering if anyone could give me any thoughts or info into something else…I have looked for it all over the place and I know we aren’t supposed to keep repeating info here but I just could not find anything about it. Here it is…did anyone notice that Kelvin from the hatch was the same American Army officer that ordered Sayid to torture his fellow countrypeople for information, back in a Sayid-centric flashback last season? Is there a discussion about this anywhere? Thanks and sorry if I am bringing up something already discussed!!

XtraCripsy wrote:

2. Now that DL and CC have either killed off or exiled all gays, hispanics, and blacks, will we find out that Jacob is Rush Limbaugh? (Don’t mention Hurley or Sayid who act as white as the rest of the cast.) The main form of recreation on the island is golf? They should rename the show, “Mysterious Gated-Community Island.”

dude, is that necessary?

No! Especially since Hurley is Hispanic, Jin and Sun are Korean, Sayid is Arabic are all still main characters…stop it already!

A large tidal wave could wash away the dirt above their graves…the Black Rock somehow got washed up and dumped on the middle of the island…or did it?

But then all the graves may be unearthed, and that would be gruesome indeed.

Nicki was wearing skimpy clothing, Eve looked fully clothed. Also, read:
lostpedia.com/wiki/Adam_and_Ev...

Clever how Vincent pulled sheet off, to show people these guys were not dead. He will probably unbury them - big dog, fast mover.

Did everyone’s screen blackout for a moment towards the last few seconds? I’m hoping it’s just what it ‘looks like’ to be buried alive, and not my tv or station going haywire…

Theory:
Black Rock people purged the indigenous islanders, slave ship surviviors become the ‘Others’ who purge Dharma. Losties purge Others and Othersville becomes Lostiville. Our friends get purged by next wave of ‘immigrants’.

(per The Lost Experience:
lostpedia.com/wiki/Black_Rock_...
The Black Rock was owned by Magnus Hanso, ‘magnus’ meaning ‘great’ in latin…like ‘him?’. If Ben is his decsendant, and Dharma was founded by Alvar Hanso, somehow someone figured out how to get off the island, but come back for it’s ’special properties’, and other people were easily recruited because ‘they love the island, and want to protect it’, per Ben. Everyone knows everyone.

Unanswered:
-Who really was the real Henry Gale?
-How come the Black Rock slaves are skeletons, but all the other dead people found are mummies (and the Marshall decomposed so fast).
-Where are all the insects, mold, fungus, disease, vermin and other critters?
-Ben was not staring at Alex’s pictures in his apartment, he was staring at his clock, making it do….?
-Paulo and Nicki weren’t that bad to have afterall, come on, at least last night they were entertaining. But if you have diamonds, wouldn’t you want to escape from an island in order to cash them in, and wouldn’t finding hatches and other people be a way to figure out how to do this? So, why did they blatantly ignore all this technology…
-Spiders sounded like monster…paralysis…good security system.

We never really saw fully how they turned Michael.

Well, I think we saw as much as were going to see with how they turned Michael - they captured him, didn’t let him see Walt until after a few days, and then offered to let him get Walt back and let the two of them leave the island. In return Michael somehow had to free Ben and bring Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley back to them.

People who can survive with little or no respiration are usually in situations of hypothermia. They fall into ice cold water. And, children generally have a better outcome than adults. The coldness slows down their metabolism, and therefore their oxygen demand is less. This is what allows them to survive.

This show is supposed to have a scientific basis.

But, if the island has mystical healing powers, as well as allowing travel between parallel quantum universes, then this series is more about fantasy than even sci fi. Not scientific at all. In other words, expect to see Paulikki again.

Apologies to all the Rush fans. But I’m sure he would think that was funny.

Even DL and CC apologized in advance on their podcast for the wig they had to put on Boone in this episode. It’s okay to point out the deficiencies on the show.

I think it’s great how the writers actually used the fact that everybody hates Nikki and Paolo to their advantage. Someone already mentioned Sawyer never remembering their names, but I don’t think anyone mentioned the flashback, in which Nikki gets killed of on Expose, and then tells her “boyfriend” that she doesn’t mind dying since “she’s just a minor character.”

I didn’t pick up on that but that’s a great catch!

adriennez wrote:

I was wondering if anyone could give me any thoughts or info into something else…I have looked for it all over the place and I know we aren’t supposed to keep repeating info here but I just could not find anything about it. Here it is…did anyone notice that Kelvin from the hatch was the same American Army officer that ordered Sayid to torture his fellow countrypeople for information, back in a Sayid-centric flashback last season? Is there a discussion about this anywhere? Thanks and sorry if I am bringing up something already discussed!!

That was discussed a bit here: lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/live...
and at other boards, after the season 2 finale aired.

I think the Ben/Juliette scene showed that Ben doesn’t control some “magic box”. He’s just a great manipulator.

We also have more con artists on the show. Seems like there was a “con artist convention” going on in Australia mate.

Yep, somehow one or both will be saved from the hole. I know the writers played into our hands, but that was too easy.

I think the radio was written in because this is how they will learn that everyone in the rescue party has been captured (waiting to see what’s up with Danielle).

Funny how the valuable stuff ends up in the waterfall pond. Wonder what else is in there?

I don’t think the show has jumped the shark but Fonzie put on the water skis.

LOL, Good one! And I agree.

This show has ‘flashes before your eyes’ all right, flashes of brilliance (last episode) and flashes of stupidity (this one and all the ‘lets bring in new characters so we can kill them’ storytelling.)

Honestly, honestly, how many people really think they’ve got a PLAN? And everything is so neatly tied together so that the PLAN unfolds to perfection? Flashes, again. Some of it, yes, you can see it in the writing. Some of it, there is a big ‘whoops! that’s going nowhere, let’s kill off someone so we don’t write ourselves into a corner’ thing going on.

It’s fluid, it’s television, it’s thinking on the fly–nothing wrong with trying things, making mistakes, burying them. Ahem.

But here’s my fear. So much lovely, quirky, interesting stuff, the big set up for a mythological arc with a great payoff, and then…the storyline fails a la x-files, Twin Peaks, with a flat, hunh?, what?!?!? oh Lord I have been wasting my time finish. I hope not, but…I can see it in the wind. Or in Desmond’s flashes.

And, one more thing, isn’t it a little scary that the writers wrote an episode as a kind of treat for the fans (the ones who hated Nikki & Paolo, at least)? A wink and a nod, hey, that’s fun and cute and adds to the whole experience. But when you tap on that fourth wall between fiction and the audience, its real risky. You risk losing people who aren’t ‘in’ on the jokes, you risk annoying people who wonder why you’re wasting time with go-nowhere storytelling, and you risk the worst one, people losing interest.

Remember when the X-Files did their comedy episodes? They were really brilliant and entertaining, especially for a show that took itself so seriously much of the time. Plus, David Duchovny has wicked smart timing. This episode of LOST felt like it was TRYING for that sensibility, but it didn’t get there. IMO.

Theory:
Black Rock people purged the indigenous islanders, slave ship surviviors become the ‘Others’ who purge Dharma. Losties purge Others and Othersville becomes Lostiville. Our friends get purged by next wave of ‘immigrants’.

(per The Lost Experience:
lostpedia.com/wiki/Black_Rock_...
The Black Rock was owned by Magnus Hanso, ‘magnus’ meaning ‘great’ in latin…like ‘him?’. If Ben is his decsendant, and Dharma was founded by Alvar Hanso, somehow someone figured out how to get off the island, but come back for it’s ’special properties’, and other people were easily recruited because ‘they love the island, and want to protect it’, per Ben. Everyone knows everyone.

This idea is pretty cool. It reminds of this other island in the (real) South Pacific called Palmerston. The island was “discovered” by Captain Cook and some of his crew remainded there and populated the island. It could make a lot of sense in terms of the Black Rock

and did Ben leave the walkie talkie for him to find on purpose(the Others haven’t really slipped up like that much, even just for a convenient plot advancement!)

Early on, they had no reason to think the survivors would find things in the hatches. Remember when they found the others customes in a hatch?

As much a people want to believe episodes like “Trisha..” and “Expose” are useless, they still have much writing integrity.

I’m pretty much convinced that Nikki and/or Paulo will get out of the grave or that their burial will have some impact on the later events of the story. Otherwise I’m going to be a bit disappointed about the writers including them in the story at all.

Also, I think something might be wrong with the timeline. Locke was clearly watching the episode of “Exposé” that Nikki starred in before his father pushed him out the window. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Locke was paralyzed for 4 years before the plane crash, but Nikki recorded the episode just before she left Australia… so how could Locke watch an episode that wouldn’t be shot until 3-4 years later? Of course, it could have been that Locke was watching a previous episode where they talked about “the cobra” so I might be wrong.

Absolutely nothing.

:(

I know posts are supposed to be constructive, and I usually don’t just complain. But…c’mon.

I mean…

Ungh.

Wow, could you sound any more racist yourself??? How does one “act white”?? I’d love to know. What a ridiculous, ignorant, bigoted comment.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Locke was paralyzed for 4 years before the plane crash, but Nikki recorded the episode just before she left Australia… so how could Locke watch an episode that wouldn’t be shot until 3-4 years later? Of course, it could have been that Locke was watching a previous episode where they talked about “the cobra” so I might be wrong.

Just a thought, but I thought that Hurley’s comment verified the dates by saying something to the effect of “he was Cobra all along”. Hurley was a big fan of Expose and likely would have already known that if it aired 4 years ago.