“Beginning of the End” Wrap Up
9 months, 3 weeks ago by WillRead more: ABC, Carlton Cuse, Damon Lindelof, Hurley, Jack, jacob
What a week for Lost. Seriously, I think that the season was kicked off with an urgency we have yet to see from the show, and definitely lived up to the hype (if that is even possible with the ABC hype-machine in full effect). Everywhere you turned this week, there was something about the show, and this episode in particular. Here is an overview of some of the more interesting occurrences:
*Christian Shepherd was definitely in Jacob’s chair - To make things even better, when that scene was originally shot, Hurley was the one in the chair and then Cuse/Lindelof changed it after the fact; read Jorge Garcia’s interview with Kristin from E! Online for more
*Abaddon - Not sure if you caught his name, but the corporate guy (originally posing as an Oceanic employee) that visited Hurley in the mental institution is CREEPY and his name literally means “destroyer, or place of destruction” - I am sure we have not seen the last of him
*Jack’s Downward Spiral - Being a serious fan of the good doctor, I think it is going to be compelling and difficult to watch how future Jack gets from where we saw him this week (to Hurley “WE’RE NEVER GOING BACK!”) to where we saw him at the end of last season (to Kate “WE HAVE TO GO BACK!”). I think we are going to see the Oceanic 6 tormented by the people they left behind in visions throughout these flash forwards, much like what we saw with the dialogue between Hurley and Charlie.
*Two Factions - At the end of last season I was seriously doubting Jack’s leadership after seeing his sad state of existence. But, I think we were thrown for somewhat of a loop this week when we see Hurley apologize to Jack in the flash forward for going/siding with Locke. I cannot imagine what happens to the group that ends up following Locke back to the DHARMA barracks
This episode would dictate that Hurley will play a much larger role this season and moving forward (Garcia’s acting in this episode was top notch!). On Thursday we should get some better indication of who the people are that show up to the Island and just how nefarious they may or may not be. I still believe there are two distinct groups looking to get to the Island - both for different reasons (one to exploit, one to protect), and that the people legitimately with Naomi are perhaps not “bad guys” at all. The six that get off the Island (Jack, Kate and Hurley are 3 confirmed) become part of some much larger conspiracy to either protect the identity of the Island or perhaps what happened to the people left behind.
As I write this post, there is extremely positive news breaking that the end of the writer’s strike is imminent. My basic understanding is that it’s likely we will get the entire 16 episode season this year based on the strike being resolved in the next few days - great for us and the show!
Comment 1, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
The new season of LOST has begun. I now more than ever believe that the core mystery is related to a contained micro black hole and the many world solution of Everett to the Shroeder quantum cat thought experiment, i.e., the cat is both alive and dead, each in parallel or overlapping universes. Hence, Charlie saying he was both alive and dead. It is a common Sci-Fi device: many worlds or different “phases”. The Island and its black hole is a junction or node of several universes, hence the occurence of visions, apparations, precognition, etc. It also explains why Desmond’s deed of initiating the fail-safe key prevented “the destruction of the world and everything” that a released black hole would achieve. After all, there was an implosion, not an explosion, in progress. Also, the localized aurora seen from the archeological search vessel [the search for Flight 815 official web site/Lostpedia summation] is the magnetic field effect from the black hole.
That said, this season should be another great ride.
[Where are all the Lost geeks from this site that filled volumes last season? This forum was much better than the Lostpedia groups.]
Comment 2, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Nice wrap up and great news about the strike. I was already preparing for the worst just so I could deal with a measley 8 episodes. A couple of things to note after watching several times and reading a few other summaries:
HO came up several times this ep. H is the 8th letter and O is the 15th letter in the alphabet - 815
Abbaddon seemed to personify smokey. Watch the door as he leaves the room - very creepy!
Kate STILL has no freckles. J Wood (at Powells Books) observes that they disappeared after Des started monkeying around with fate. The writers even point it out when Kate asks Sawyer “since when did you start calling me Kate”. Time layers and worm holes - Don’t you just love that?!
When Hurley is being questioned by LAPD the room looks very much like the Hydra rooms. NOSMOKING on the wall with the speaker appears as one word and I wonder if it is some kind of clue.
Wasn’t Jack drinking in the morning in the ep? I was under the impression the car chase happened in the morning and that means Jack started his day with a little help from his friend. So he is already on the way down.
Ben’s people went to the temple at the end of season 3. I hope we get a glimpse of the Others in the episodes to come. I have a feeling that going to the barracks is going to be a really bad idea.
Comment 3, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Ok, EXHALE!
Keep your arms inside as the ride is beginning its climb.
Here are my 2 cents:
1) upon a pre episode video of Jacks dad talking with Vincent I believe it is Jacks dad who is talking with Locke about the island, which helped both of them come back from the dead. Jacks Dad is one of the 6..SHOCKER!
2) Last is Walt and his father are killed by Ben but Walts abilities and the island keep him alive in a ghostly state and he will only show to those who are near death! LOCKE!
Let the the theories FIRE UP!
Comment 4, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
PS. Come on people we have seen 2 episodes with flash forwards …is some one working on the “connections” etc.
Comment 5, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
This was wrap-up was very nice to see. Thank you for maintaining the original spirit of this fantastic spoiler-free discussion site. This site has completed the experience for me for the last two seasons and I hope that it continues for this one.
I have only left a few comments thus far, but I plan to to comment much more this season. So let me introduce myself with these opening comments
1. It is nice to finally start to get some more site on the long dormant importance of Hurley. I have always thought this his story was way more important than the show had let on thus far. I think we will see his ‘numbers’ circle back around this season. I am very curious to see how Hurley ends up leaving considering that he went with Locke, which leads me to…
2. I think that it Hurley will see Ben working some dastardly plan or see that Ben has some information that Jack needs and take matters into his hands and take Ben back to Jack. This will result in Ben leaving the island and then further lead to Ben being in the coffin (lets try hard to keep this thread free of repeating coffin comments, hope i didnt open that door).
3. Charlie’s appearance has further stoked the flames of my conscious particles theory (ala His Dark Materials). I believe that if you die in as a martyr on the island you achieve transcendence into the universe. In other words your soul’s imprint becomes part of the universe. So.. when the universe needs something (i.e. - the Oceanic 6 back on the island) it appears in a ’safe’ form. For Hurley, Charlie would be the safest form for the ‘universe’ or the island to take, so it could talk to Hurley in a way that Hurley would accept… only our tubby friend hasn’t quite wrapped his head around that acceptance
Anyway just a few of the things I noticed this wonderful rejuvenating episode of Lost.
Comment 6, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Lesley wrote:
HO: Love it when the writers throw those little easter eggs in for the vigilant viewers
Abbadon: Love the choice of last name, very nice touch. While he did personify the smoke and his name is suggestive of evil, i think its important to notice that he was sitting on the WHITE side of the chess board…
Kate: I’ll have to go back and watch, but does she really not have freckles on the island OR is it just in the flash forward?
Comment 7, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Lesley wrote:
HO: Love it when the writers throw those little easter eggs in for the vigilant viewers
Abbadon: Love the choice of last name, very nice touch. While he did personify the smoke and his name is suggestive of evil, i think its important to notice that he was sitting on the WHITE side of the chess board…
Kate: I’ll have to go back and watch, but does she really not have freckles on the island OR is it just in the flash forward?
holla back
Comment 8, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
I agree with Lone and A Kelly, this site originally attracted me so long ago because of the theories everyone had and how we all expounded on those theories, together. Hopefully we will keep building new theories - we sure have a lot more information now. I am fascinated with time travel and parellel universes. Charlie appears to both Hurley and another inmate. He is able to slap Hurley because he exists in a different time/space than that on the island. He is alive in the “future” because the real world future exists in the LOST island’s past. Did that make sense? Charlie as seen by Hurley has not yet died on the island and that is part of why the six must return. The hatch explosion exposed a wormhole and somehow the six (and Charlie and Desmond) can exist in the real world beyond or outside of island time. Richard Alpert does not age on the island because time does not move there as it does outside of the island. Perhaps that is why the Losties are dead in the plane and alive on the island at the same time. That also explains how Walt grew being outside of the island’s time/space. The island exists in a different time/space layer.
It is true about Kate’s freckles. Look at the most recent ep and you will notice she has no freckles. For that matter in season one Charlie could not swim but when he swam down the TLG (after the hatch implosion) he was a former swim champ. TPTB are very cautious about continuity, this cannot be a coincidence. These are definitely time glitches.
Comment 9, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
A Kelly, you are correct about the white side of the chess board and Mr. Abbaddon. There is also another notable easter egg. Behind him on the wall there is a ladybug. The labybug has a mythical past being associated in some cultures with Gad or the the virgin Mary. It is also the symbol for the Dutch Foundation Against Senseless Violence! Around the room there are also several butterflies on the wall and those must represent metamorphosis.
Comment 10, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Ooops I meant to type God.
Comment 11, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Lesley,
I am contemplating on possible anagrams for NO SMOKING. I haven’t ever been questioned by the LAPD so maybe I may be a looking into this too much.
I was great that the chess board divided Abbadon and Hurley much how there conversation went back and forth. Reminded me of Locke’s game and how he won and blew up the communication station.
As for Kate, I noticed in the flash forward she was driving a Volvo. Kate doesn’t seem like the type of girl to get a Volvo unless she’s now a mom. I couldn’t see a carseat though.
Maybe Evangeline Lilly had skin treatment since she had so much sun damage filming in Hawaii,and that’s how she lost her freckles- J/K.
Comment 12, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
This is my first time to the site, and I’ve just started watching Lost 3 months ago! Of course I am obsessed and managed to watch all of them during this time;)
Anyways… regarding Christian Shepherd in Jacob’s chair. Interesting! I think you are right. I was wondering who that was. I don’t know if this was mentioned before, but during the episode in which Jacob was first introduced (to us and to Locke) in seemed their was a split second flash of a woman with blond curly hair sitting in the chair. I am thinking that this is Ben’s mom. Did anyone else notice this?
Also, the man looking outside the window (of Jacob’s hut) at Hurley? Who was that? Was that Ben’s father?
Comment 13, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
I too am intrigued by the parallel universe possibility, but find myself perplexed by a few things. Why has Ben, who arrived on the island as a child, aged when Richard Alpert has not? Just a little glitch that keeps coming up in my mind that I hope someone is able to put to rest for me
Comment 14, posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago - Quote and reply
BEEN WATCHING LOST SINCE DAY ONE. LOVE IT.
ALSO WHEN MAN IS TAKING TO HURLEY IN HOSPITAL IN BACK OF HURLEY ON CHALK BOARD ARE DRAWINGS OF A ISLAND, A SHARK, A PLANE ETC,, TAKE A LOOK
Comment 15, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Lesley wrote:
well, when charlie said he was a swimming champion, he lied, because he wanted to convince sayid to go to the looking glass… he wasn’t a swimming champion, but he KNEW it was him who had to go.
Comment 16, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Lesley wrote:
One little glitch in this theory is that Saywer did call Kate “Freckles” after Desmond started “monkeying around with fate”. According to the transcripts at Lost-TV.com, it seems that the last time he called her that was in the “Catch22″ episode, which occurred well after Desmond told Charlie about his visions. I think the reason Sawyer stopped calling her “Freckles” has to do with the changes in Sawyer after he killed the original Sawyer. He became a darker person - remember how he killed Tom (Mr. Friendly) pretty much without hesitation?
I should add that I’m not watching the show on HDTV, so from my not-so-high-quality picture I can’t tell if in the more recent island scenes Kate indeed has no Freckles. But in the flash-forward, she had so much make-up on that it seems to me the freckles would be hidden anyways.
Comment 17, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
clover wrote:
I agree, and to take this one step further, back in season 1 when Charlie said he couldn’t swim, I think he was only saying that because he didn’t want to risk his own life and swim out to try to save the woman who was apparently drowning. He was a different person then - still addicted to drugs, hadn’t really bonded with anyone on the island yet. By the end of season 3, he had evolved into a more selfless person, willing to risk his life for someone he loved.
Comment 18, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Toeknee wrote:
I agree, and to take this one step further, back in season 1 when Charlie said he couldn’t swim, I think he was only saying that because he didn’t want to risk his own life and swim out to try to save the woman who was apparently drowning. He was a different person then - still addicted to drugs, hadn’t really bonded with anyone on the island yet. By the end of season 3, he had evolved into a more selfless person, willing to risk his life for someone he loved.
Also, in the ep. where his father coaxed him into jumping into the pool, I took it as that was when he learned to swim and took a big interest in it because his gained acceptance from his father by jumping in…may have lead him to be a champion swimmer?
Comment 19, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Nice work Toeknee, I did not check the transcripts. I also do not have HDTV and cannot see any freckles in the latest episode although I do recall seeing freckles in the past. I guess time will answer that one. I still believe there are different time/space layers and the island plays a huge part in their existence. Maybe like the Dark Tower, the island acts as the meeting point for all parallel time/space layers.
Comment 20, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Lesley wrote:
agreed, nice spot Toeknee. I always had a hard time swallowing the theory that Charlie’s past was changed due to Desmond. I think that if Charlie had become a champion swimmer do to some time rip, much more would have changed as well. You can’t just change one thing in the past. One thing changes everything. I think this will be a key point of the show.
I feel certain that time has a big part of the show, but as of yet nothing really settles in to a solid theory. Parallel universes, time travel, wormholes, all involved somehow but, not just one i dont think.
I think that perhaps rather than traveling through time in a linear fashion when the leave the island, it will be more like coming back to an alternate reality.
Another universe, where some things happened the same and others didn’t. (i.e. - Jack’s dad dying, Kate committing murder, etc…)
I do agree that the island does serve as a nexus of time and space ala Dark Tower, especially considering the known love for Stephen King that the writers of this show have. But also knowing the method of their writing, I think we will definitely see their own spin on this idea.
Comment 21, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Are we sure that Kate is one of the Oceanic 6? I doubt that surviving a plane crash would get her off the hook with the authorities for murder, and her meeting with Jack appeared to be in a pre-arranged secret spot. The Oceanic 6 seem way too famous for someone wanting to keep a low profile.
Comment 22, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
I hear and read a lot about theories about time is different on the island than everywhere else. That’s interesting, and there does seem to be something going on with time stuff, but I wonder if a couple of things might contradict that.
Specifically, I’m thinking of the time when Ben shows Jack video of the Red Sox winning the world series. He’s pretty specific about how many days it’s been and exactly what date it is. That seems to be point to time working at the same pace in both places.
Any thoughts on that guys?
Comment 23, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Just wanted to say first that this is far and away my favorite site to discuss Lost theory and weekly story lines, so thanks to everyone who contributes constructively.
I loved this week’s premiere…it really lived up to all the hype, thank goodness! The whole element of time is really fascinating and I look forward to seeing how the Oceanic 6 are going to cope with life post-island. I wanted to second Nakira in her thinking that Kate’s car is very mom-like…I think the “him” that’s waiting at home is she and Sawyer’s child.
I also really liked the police questioning w/ Hurley and how they always manage to pack every frame full of clues (having Charlie’s hand read “they need you” before it breaks the glass in the interrogation room was such a fun little easter egg).
Hope the season maintains this momentum and that the end of the writer’s strike is imminent.
Comment 24, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
MT if time moves faster outside of the island and the Others were able to come and go between the time layers (before the purple haze) then the Sox game was played long before, allowing Ben to show Jack the video. Considering their methods of manipulation it is likely they kept track of time off-island via Patchy’s communicaiton station. The glitch is what tj points out - that Ben (on the island since he was a child) has aged but Richard has not.
It would make sense that Kate may not be one of the six. She avoided Jack’s calls and seemed annoyed that he wanted a meeting. Hard to keep hidden if you are meeting celebreties on a regular basis. I wonder how many other “low-profile” survivors got off the island?
Comment 25, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
What’s with the city underneath the title of Lost during the previews? Anyone notice that?
Comment 26, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
MT wrote:
well, i think that if time moves slower on the island, than maybe on the mainland could’ve passed even 3 years so far :P ben probably taped the game and showed jack the recording, knowing how many days passed since the plane crashed on the island…
Comment 27, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
I love this site. It is by far one of the best I’ve read for discussion.
OK, the funniest line to me in last weeks ep was Ben’s. “Jack with your permission I’d rather go with Locke”. Just thought it was funny but it also brings up a point. There was no exchange between Ben & Locke. If I were Locke I would have some things to discuss if you know what I mean. There seems to be a gap in time between when Locke got out of the pit that Ben left him in and when he Shish kabobed Naomi. I wonder if Locke really knows/understands more than he’s letting on.
Comment 28, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
I think there is a lot more to the time element of this show as i said. I am loving all the theories thus far, but the only one I can really get behind is that they have arrived off the island sometime in the near future. 3 years does sound like a good number or so. I don’t think that continuity of the show provides for them being in the past and it didn’t look like they were in a far away future. Just a few years ahead of when they crashed…
Comment 29, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Scott wrote:
You may be right, but i think that has to do more with Ben seeing an opportunity to stay on the island. I think that John at least has understanding of why Ben shot him, and is willing to forgive him at least for the time being so they can get the hell away from whoever is coming to the island.
Comment 30, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
when locke was ‘resurrected’ after having been shot…his attitude to taking life was transformed…remember how he procrastinated over whether or not to kill his father, eventually resigning himself to the fact that he could not do it. after he arose however he did not hesitate in flinging his knife at naomi…from behind even. both he and ben seem to ‘know’ info that no one else is privvy to…probably because of their affinity with the island.
also george bukowski…that is how the guy on the phone introduces himself. was that also the name of the fellow who blew his brains out in the hatch? the man that desmond replaced?
Comment 31, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
I love this show…it really makes people think. Which is always a good thing! First off, I was so scared that when Hurley said he wanted to do a cannonball in the ocean that Charlie’s body was going to float up. I hid my face in the pillow…I just knew that was going to happen. For a long time I have thought that everything is a figment of Hurley’s imagination…that he is in a catonic state in a mental institution. I personally love Hurley and think he is adorable.
This is for everyone speculating on Charlie’s swimming abilities…I remember him not being able to swim and then he did say he was a champion swimmer. I just took that as Charlie was now a believer in Desmond and knew he had to be the one to go…it was pre-destined. Remember how Hurley wanted to go with Charlie? Made me think of when Frodo tried to go off in the boat without Sam and Sam almost died…Could this be a clue as to the Hurley/Charlie relationship? (Charlie was a Hobbit, after all.)
As to Kate and no freckles. Maybe Claire dies somehow and Kate comes back impersonating her w/Aron? The island has cured Locke and Rose…maybe it has somehow altered Kate’s fingerprints? Kate has to wear a lot of make-up to cover her freckles. It would be nice to think that Kate and Sawyer are together but I think Sawyer lost his soul on the island. I think it must be Ben or Locke in the coffin. That is why no one else gives a damn about their death. Jack has a love/hate relationship with Locke. I do not think either Ben or Locke would leave the island willingly…Jack may have forced one of them to leave and now he is racked with guilt at their death. If Locke became paralyzed again I think he would kill himself. I don’t think it is Michael. No one hated Michael…even after he betrayed them and killed Libby. Michael was trying to save Walt. I think Walt still will play a much bigger part in this whole saga. And just for the record…I have never understood why everyone was so quick to truct Desmond. He was the idiot who blew up the hatch! I miss Mr. Ecko..he was pretty cool.
Comment 32, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Oceanic Airlines cannot be trusted!
www.youtube.com/dontflyoceanicair
Comment 33, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
John actually has a vested interest in Ben’s survival at this point. It really doesn’t matter what Ben does as it seems he is unable to kill John. Ben is clearly the key to the island’s secrets as he knows where the temple is along with the rest of the Others. Ben on the other hand, knows that John is protected by Jacob. Do you notice how quiet Ben gets when he is at a disadvantage? He soaks in all the information for later use.
Kate might have a child but there is someone else in the picture as well. You don’t just up and leave a three year old when Jack calls for a midnight rendezvous.
meathead, I believe the skyline under the island is LA.
Comment 34, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
when locke was ‘resurrected’ after having been shot…his attitude to taking life was transformed…remember how he procrastinated over whether or not to kill his father, eventually resigning himself to the fact that he could not do it. after he arose however he did not hesitate in flinging his knife at naomi…from behind even. both he and ben seem to ‘know’ info that no one else is privy to…probably because of their affinity with the island.
also george bukowski…that is how the guy on the phone introduces himself. was that also the name of the fellow who blew his brains out in the hatch? the man that desmond replaced?
also…somebody mentioned the island appearing to the people who had been there in a form that they could accept…eg charlie visiting hurley…i did notice though that another patient could see charlie. he pointed him out to hurley and said he had been staring at him.
Comment 35, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Radzinsky was Kelvin’s partner in the hatch who committed suicide. George Minkowski is the freighter bloke. (That is also the name of a German mathematician.)
Locke certainly had no problem killing Naomi and that would seem to be island/Jacob related. But it seems that some of the same attitude has rubbed off on Jack because he was certainly going to kill Locke and he told Tom he was going to kill him as well.
Comment 36, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Scott wrote:
I thought that was funny too - but did you catch that just before this scene, Jack says to Ben, “I’m not letting you out of my sight” - or something like that. Then moments later, he lets Ben out of his sight to go with Locke. I found that odd. But I suppose Jack wasn’t caring too much, thinking they’re all getting off the island.
Comment 37, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
I saw above where someone mentioned the city skyline underneath the word “Lost.” I made my husband watch the recap show before the new episode aired, hoping to get him hooked too. The city skyline was the first thing he notice. I’ve never really noticed it. Is there an explanation? I could see it meaning something and be hidden in plain sight as so many of those clever little nuggets are. Anyone?
Comment 38, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
timo wrote:
I have a question about Locke seemingly “knowing” things other people don’t. For example, and maybe I just missed it during the premiere, Locke met Hurley in the woods after Hurley saw Jacob’s cabin. How did Locke know about Charlie??
Also, I think the guy on the phone is George Mialkowski. I think someone else has said this too..
Comment 39, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
NikkiV wrote:
When Locke first appears near Jacob’s cabin, Hurley is laying on the ground, looks up, and sees Locke. Then there’s a commercial break. After the break, Hurley is sitting up, talking with Locke. Presumably, during the commercial break, Hurley let Locke know what happened.
Comment 40, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Toeknee wrote:
When Locke first appears near Jacob’s cabin, Hurley is laying on the ground, looks up, and sees Locke. Then there’s a commercial break. After the break, Hurley is sitting up, talking with Locke. Presumably, during the commercial break, Hurley let Locke know what happened.
I figured, but would the writers actually do that purposely?
Comment 41, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
I kind of just figured that the city skyline was a reference to those who will get off the island–who will go back to civilization (the juxtaposition of those images is a great analogy for how the group is split now)…you never know with the producers of this show though–they’re always ready to put a subliminal meaning in everything (and I for one, love it!).
Comment 42, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Missy wrote:
I thought since I first saw the skyline that it was just a reference to those who would leave the island for “the real world” or perhaps an analogy of how the survivors are now split–either way, the juxtaposition of the skyline and the island are pretty eerie. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Comment 43, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Whoops! Sorry for the double comment. I thought my computer had eaten the first one;-)
Comment 44, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Lost.
Two days before I watched ‘The Begining of The End’ I sat down with a friend of mine, a fellow Lost convertee. We discussed the characters on the show, and whereas we both indicated a very real trust in John Locke. Our opinions on Jack & Sawyer were quite far apart.
In brief, I considered Sawyer the more heroic of the two, and I made an observation and a prediction regarding Jack.
But surely, my friend reasoned - I only saw Sawyer’s occasional acts of nobility as heroic because they were so scant. Surely I was contrasting them to his general attitude and therefore, as rarities, gave them higher value than Jack’s more consistent and enduring heroics - that we saw in action with the very first episode of Lost - from the moment he opened his eyes and went about saving people.
My only partially reasoned counter to this was that it was easier for Jack to do ‘the right thing’ - he’d been more or less programmed into it from birth, his family, his profession, he was the straight-up guy - for all intents and purposes - Jack, when it comes to doing the right thing, has the wind at his back.
With Sawyer, nothing could be further than the truth. If anything, life has taught him to do the exact opposite - to look out for nobody but himself, and to disregard anybody else in anything other than an instrumental fashion. And yet - we’ve seen him go against his geist - and despite all reason to the contrary, make moral choices. The clearest of which might’ve been when we saw him revoke a con after seeing that his mark had a young son. Despite all psychological odds to the contrary, Sawyer chose not to subject another child to what he himself was subjected to as a child.
And I have come to distrust Jack.
This distrust commenced in parallel to the growing distance between him and John Locke, and for me, personally, was sealed when I saw him on the beach with Juliette, after she had joined the our Losties - and he said that he trusted her because after seeing the look in her eyes when Ben announced that Locke had blown up the submarine, he had realized that she, like him, was desperate to get off the island. In that moment, with that statement, I knew Jack was no longer ‘a good guy’. My friend thought that opinion too radical. Surely, he suggested, anybody in his right mind would be desperate to get off the island - and Locke was no example to hold in this regard, because he had special reasons to want to remain on the island.
Still, I would not budge on this. It was clear to me that from that moment onwards, we had seen that Jack had just had too much. He had been broken, and in being that desperate towards one specific goal, was no longer a reliable moral guide. His prime directive was no longer to ‘do good’, but to ‘get off the island’.
And so, I distrust Jack. Between that desperation and the appearence of a guilt-stricken drunk we’d seen in the 1st flash-forward at the end of Season 3 - I knew that Jack would do something horrible. Immoral, unforgivable, and just wrong.
Sure enough, this episode - by pulling that trigger - Jack is, excuse the inadvertant pun, Lost.
He tried to kill Locke. He pulled that trigger in cold blood, with everybody watching, and whether or not that gun was loaded, Jack has gone to the Dark Side and isn’t coming back anytime soon. I’ve seen people here suggest that by killing Naomi, the same could be said of Locke, but I just don’t feel that to be the case. Locke’s is driven by necessity and understanding, not desperation, and thus his actions have to be weighed in a completely different way. Naomi had come to them, and she was leading them to something quite terrible, and everybody was listening to Jack, but Jack would not listen.
I have no clue who’s in the coffin, and I haven’t ventured to make guesses about it. I also have no clue who the ‘6′ are since having Hurley be one of them (despite his being with Locke) and having at least Jack be one of the them too - makes it clear that something happened in between. It’s not a simple matter of Jack’s group making it, or Locke’s group making it. Obviously something more complicated took or will take place…
Also - I do not think that Hurley’s ‘apology’ to Jack was meant to necessarily imply that going with Locke was a mistake, it could just as well mean that he’s sorry to have ‘abandoned’ Jack at a time when he thinks he might have been of help. That is, it might well turn out that it was safer to be with Locke right now (as Sawyer’s instincts surmised…) and that Jack’s group (as Ben and Locke believe) is about to get royally screwed. The apology might just be Hurley’s regret at what happened to Jack, and that he was not there to support him or the others in his group. That he ‘let’ Jack lie in the bed he’d made when perhaps he could have done more to convince him to join them, or perhaps, at least, stood by them when the shit hit the proverbial fan.
Wonderful show :)
Also - I have to admire the writers for narrative smarts. The first 3 season flashbacks always drove momentum by causing us to always re-assess the characters by comparing their actions on the island to what was revealed to us about their pasts. Now, I somewhat assume that by mirroring the whole time-narrative, we now have to re-assess their present by what is revealed about their futures. Until, eventually, both lines meet.
Absolutely brilliant work…
Agh, another 36 hours or so…
Oh, shameless plug - if you click my name, you can hear some of my music on lastfm :)
Comment 45, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
Oh, and to further demonstrate just how far Jack has gone - did you hear what Locke said right before Jack pulled that trigger?
“You’re not going to shoot me Jack, anymore than I was gonna shoot..” - the end of that sentence was almost certainly ‘you’ - in reference to the confrontation from the end of season 3, after Locke got Naomi.
Locke, as made clear by this statement, had no intention of shooting Jack. It is this incident now that will prove to Locke that Jack is not only a non-believer, but frankly, just a moral mess.
So yeah, Jack’s gone nuts. Locke is Sane.
Of course, Rose doesn’t see that - but then again, we have to take into consideration that Rose hasn’t seen quite as much as either of them has, to her eyes - Jack has in fact, been the good ‘Shepherd’…although still, she should’ve found it shocking to see Jack pull that trigger, that should’ve raised a red flag to her…
Desmond is a big, big, HUGE question. I have NO clue why he’s with the Jack group. I can imagine two explanations. The first is that he’s simply a broken man who’s been on the Island for so long that he’ll clutch at any chance, no matter how remote, to get off the island, and he hopes that somehow, he’ll be able to make his way to Penny that way. The other is that his fore-sight is somehow in play, and that he is with Jack specifically to try to use that fore-sight to help Jack deal with coming events. Still, if that were it - I’d expect we’d have been shown some clue to that, a remark of some sort. Instead, when it comes to Desmond - we’re given no indication as to his motivation. So I guess we’ll have to see that develop. As it stands, it’s just weird.
Another 35 hours :) ? lol
And yeah, excuse my rambling.
Comment 46, posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago - Quote and reply
reply to one of Omar’s comments:
When Jack explained why he trusted Juliette, I thought his trust not based on logic. If she wanted to get off the island that badly, she would lie and pretend and do whatever to get off the island! Perhaps even being a spy for the Others.
I’m still amazed at how much punishment Ben’s taken and early on and intentionally at that! That said, blowing up one’s buddies could be “OK.” OK with the island, which requires sacrifice (why? and why the “bad” ones. [Locke’s dad] and what does it really prove or accomplish for the doer?) and possibly even OK with Ben. (He had Patchy off the 2 women and he is the author of the Purge) … so, Juliette could still be a spy or not loyal to anybody. who knows?!
but all that said to say that i liked your comment about Jack losing his moral compass… that he’s the one that is now bent on getting off the island … at *any* cost.
Another point about ppl’s moral compass… it bugs me to no end that Ben and the Other’s — or rather the ppl working for Ben as we cannot be too sure if they were recruits or actual Others — can kill, abduct, and break every bone in someone’s body and repeatedly say, “we’re the good guys.”
and for that… and this isn’t said simply, but Mr. Friendly deserved it. He took, by force, a child (perhaps i’m showing my hand), but if we think (emotionally) and this happens to you, how’d you react when you meet up w/ the kidnapper?
amazing how this gets me to think more (grr) but shouldn’t it have been Michael? rather than killing 2 losties and injuring himself?
more random points:
are we still getting shippments? cuz ppl have got to be running out of bullets soon!
and they’re building a landing strip or not? if so, strange how Ben wan